ALFAGTV6.COM

[grega]

Hey guys,

i've had this problem for over a year. After about 1 day without driving my battery goes dead.
i've even tried to replace my battery. I pulled the alternator out and replaced the regulator.


recently I've trouble shot, by attaching a multimeter to the negative batter terminal and the disconnected negative ground cable. I set the meter to Amps.

with the car not running i get a draw of 2.6mA I've been told that this is too high
by an electrician at work. Would you guys agree?

The odd thing is when i open a door the draw drops to .16mA
I also noted that the interior lights do not switch on when the passenger side door is open, just the driver.

Has anyone had similar problems?
Any suggestions?


Greg A
83 gtv 6
toronto

[Al_Cam]

Greg,

2.6 mA shouldn’t bother a battery, especially a new one. Should last for weeks.

Purely by coincidence, I measured the drain on my car 2 days ago at 8 and a bit mA and that doesn’t cause any problems. I would imagine it's just the memory of the cd/radio pulling that in my car.

I think they original clocks would probably draw more than that anyway.

Bit weird about the interior lights, don’t know what’s going on there. Maybe sort that out in case there is a short that comes and goes.

AL.

[Murray]

Greg - acceptable "at rest" battery draw for a car of this era would be up to about 50ma.so something is going on ?

- are you sure you're reading the scale on your meter correctly ?
- are you certain the battery you installed is good ?
- are you certain your alternator is charging correctly 13.5 - 14.5 V at idle ?
-do you have any kind of alarm system - remote starter or stereo system that could be drawing current when you're not checking it ?

- your unusual values when opening the door are also worth further investigation.The GTV6 has a delay relay that is supposed to shut off the interior lights after about 10 sec.from door closing.It's mounted up under the dash - drivers side.

[MD]

Murray has it covered and I just want to ad this bit of dribble..

2.6mA would not drain a fully charged battery overnight. Think about it. Everytime you fire up the starter motor, the battery is discharging current at the rate of 150amps (thats AMPS not milliamps) and how many starting attempts can you make before it goes flat? Dozens.

Your problem is possibly a faulty battery that discharges internally. Happens to even new ones !
Or, you have a high bleed current due to a wiring loom problem somewhere but this should show a much higher current drain than 2.6mA (in addition to items listed by Murray)

[grega]

hey guys
when i last checked the alternator it was producing about 13.7v at idle. I'll double check this again.
How does one check a battery for an internal short?
My car is stock, and doesn't have any fancy stereo or alarm.
the only draw is from the presets on the radio and the orginal electric clock.

I'm going to check out the door switch mechanism and see if i find anything there.
i'm also going to recheck the amps draw to make sure i got it right the first time, since it seems to low according to what you guys are saying

Greg

[MD]

How does one check a battery for an internal short?

Take the battery out of the car. Use a battery charger to fully charge it up. Leave it off the charger for a couple of days. If it has an internal short, the charge will not hold. To test if it is holding charge, re-install it into the car. Give the engine a dozen starts. If the starter motor is giving good hard cranks, the battery is good. If it gives one or two and dies, it is faulty.

Or

Install a battery isolator switch. After the battery is fully charged, isolate the battery overnight or longer. Make the switch connection. Carry out the engine starts as above. By using the switch, you are proving that the battery discharges by itself when isolated or it doesn' and the wiring loom is the cause.

[Al_Cam]

Greg,

The 13.7v you were getting at idle, was measured that at the battery? Were you getting a good, quick turn over of the starter initially with the new battery?
I assume you've cleaned all the battery terminals, positive block in the engine bay and earth connections. I thought I'd covered them all in the past, but missed the cable from the negative of the battery to the metal of the battery box. It's exposed to moisture on the outside/underneath of the car. The cable had been replaced in the last few years and was bright shiny new, but the connection to the body was corroded and I was losing 2 volts on the very first connection from the battery to earth. - This wouldn't cause a discharge, but may limit re-charging by the Alternator, causing a slow death.

Certainly possible to buy a dud. Batteries used to be sold years ago either uncharged or left on the shelf on a float charger. Lead acids do self discharge slowly; unsold stock in a shop not on float should be recycled occasionally by the manufacturer.

Maybe even try leaving the ammeter connected (on a high current range), with the car not running for a few hours and check every so often to see if it the drain suddenly jumps to several amps.

The way batteries are rated, a 380 Ah battery is theoretically capable of providing 1/10th of that for ten hours i.e. 38A for 10 hours, 3.8A for 100 hours & so on… Not quite accurate but the point is you are going to need a lot of amps to drain a car battery in good condition overnight. Given you replaced the battery, I’m leaning towards the thing not being recharged very well (by the alternator) and if that’s putting out 13.7V from the new regulator, then likely dirty/poor connections somewhere causing high resistance.

Sounds like a real pig of a problem.

Good luck,
AL.

[grega]

Al_cam

The 13.7 volts was measured at the battery with the car running at idle.

The cars starter turns over nice when the battery is charged. but if i go to it after 2 days or so it wont turn over at all. I have cleaned all the earth connections. I haven't checked the possitive block in the engine bay. Where is it located? on the firewall?

MD
if i disconnect the ground cable from the battery, that should do the trick too right?



Greg

[MD]

Yes.

Fitting an isolator switch there makes for easy maintenace ie. welding on car, service to starter motor, any loom work etc. Your call.

[Al_Cam]

Greg,

The Positive terminal block is on the firewall next to the Brake booster. It's mounted on the side of the bonnet catch. Two big fat cables leaving from the bottom. One goes to the battery and the other to the starter. 3 or more usually red wires also. But if you are getting a good fast crank at starting, then that's not your problem. And if you’re getting 13.7V at the battery, then there probably isn't any high resistance joints preventing charging. It was a long shot anyway.

Try the "disconnect the battery" and see if it self discharges i.e. new battery is dud.

If it always goes flat after a day or 2 when not used you could try pulling fuses one at a time when everything is off and see if you can isolate which circuit is causing it. Pull a fuse, wait a day. Gone flat? That’s not it.

Have you chased down that interior light funny? - That’s real odd, current should go up when you open the door. If your car has the interior light delay feature, removing the timer relay should isolate that. Prising the light fittings out requires caution as they are very brittle when old. They just pull out (very.... gentle) and try removing the globes, see if the switches are still ok. you could have flakes of rust sitting across the switches in the door frames, you can get at them through the kick panels in the floor well - still a pig though.

Keep in mind that lead acid batteries don't like being deep discharged. If they've been flattened too far (can't remember the voltage) then the re-charging may get the voltage back up, but there isn't much capacity (amps) available and they go flat quickly.

More long shots:

1. Go have a look at night in the dark. Any lights on a little bit? - Due to a dodgy light switch. I have had on other cars metal from the sliding contacts mixing with grease in the switch to make a conductive grease paste (smoking steering column was a wake up).

2. Last week my Starter Solenoid played up. Couldn't start the beast in the morning. When I got home that night, I found the solenoid had stuck on, not enough to start or turn the starter, but the current draw had flattened my 3 week old battery to 11V. Worn Ignition switch I suspect.

Good luck,
AL.

[grega]

hey guys,

I've done as you said

i've charged the battery and disconnected it. i came back to it in two days and it had under 12 volts and wouldn't crank over the car.
So i've returned the battery. Now i have a new one!

In checking for amps draw i blew the fuse in my multimeter. Perhaps i shouldn't have set it to mA and just had it on Amps. now i have to find one of these fast acting fuses. anyhow that's another story.

I still haven't had a chance to look into why the door swtich doesn't activate the interior lights. it's probably a grounding issue.

As to why i was getting more amps draw with the door open and lights on than with it closed. Perhaps my multimeter was acting up? before the fuse blew?

anyhow. I'm going to see if this new battery solves the problem. I'll let you guys know how it goes in a few days or so.

Once again thanks for all your tips. You guys set me on the right path!

Greg A

[mjr]

One piece of advise. read your DVM instructions thoroughly to see what it's ranges in various situations are. The way they are built , means you can get some very strange readings with dvms, when it comes to earthing and resistance issues, especially on old analogue wiring systems, such as those on the GTV6.

Measure your current draw, with an analogue meter, they don't and can't give you spurious readings, like DVMs can in certain circumstances.

[MD]

Greg,

If you have a serious current drain as you seem to, your basic multimeter will not do the job. You need to borrow one or see an auto electrician who can measure the discharge using a meter specifically made for the high current jobs.

That is to say, if you install a bigger fuse, it may damage your meter.

[Paul Bird]

Hi MD, have you changed your email address? tried to email you but it returned unsent.


Cheers
PB UK

[MD]

Paul,

..out here where I play my didgeridoo there is nothing but the smell of eucalyp trees, koala shit and the ocassional ant that wants to bite your privates.
..email address? what u talkin' 'boy?

ah read your PM ya goose.