It seems not only the L-Jetronic was the culprit! With another L-Jetronic the car runs but it is slow and intermittent. It seems I need a new AFM (Bosch 0280202013) or, at least, I might try to have mine rebuilt.
Any hints?
Lucio
PS Don't be surprised, GTV6 parts are extremely rare in Italy.
Yeah, I knew that page.sira wrote:You have this on main page www.alfagtv6.com go to tehnical-> Larger AFM Installation
I don't want a larger AFM, just one that fits and works
Lucio
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
I think you can still buy brand new AFMs from IAP. They are super expensive, like over $500. There are always some on evil bay for around $100. It seems a good known working unit from a reliable reseller costs about $200. It is possible to rebuild them if you can get the parts. I don't know where you might find them, and I don't know of anyone rebuilding them.
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brookstroutr
- Gold
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:55 pm
- Location: Keystone Hgts, Floureyeduh
I may have a spare. I'll check storage in a few days and let you know. What's the Bosch PN on your AFM to confirm? They should all be alike, but I've seen incorrect units installed. They'll run; some for awhile while others do not give the full performance readings to the ECU; e.g. BMW 027 (635, 535) on the M5/6 - 025.
Regards,
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
Bosch code: 0 280 202 013. Original Alfa code should be 116 46 11 013 00.brookstroutr wrote:I may have a spare. I'll check storage in a few days and let you know. What's the Bosch PN on your AFM to confirm? They should all be alike, but I've seen incorrect units installed. They'll run; some for awhile while others do not give the full performance readings to the ECU; e.g. BMW 027 (635, 535) on the M5/6 - 025.
I know I can buy one brand new but I'd prefer to rebuild mine and have one second-hand that works.
Thanks and let me know. Also, let me know if you need parts I might have that I no longer need.
Lucio
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brookstroutr
- Gold
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:55 pm
- Location: Keystone Hgts, Floureyeduh
Lucio,
I rummaged through my spares and I do not have a spare AFM at this time. I'm doing some conversions and I won't have one available for some time. Also, the PN on mine is 010. Your 013 is for Euro motors and the circuit boards are different. It'd probably work, but not as well as the designated AFM.
I'm fairly familiar with the Bosch AFM. They're very simple. There is a simple 'clean up & check' procedure as follows:
1. Remove the AFM from car.
2. Spray the exterior and internal air passage & idle passage with a non-chloronated brake cleaner. Be care full of the small heat film strip that sticks down inside the front of the AFM (this is one of the culprits not to be repaired).
3. Remove the plug on the idle mixture screw from the top. Turn the adjustment screw down with a allen wrench counting the total turns until it seats (stops).
4. Remove the idle mixture screw and clean the hole & screw with brake cleaner. Check the oring that seats this screw for condition. Slightly lubricate on install and set back to the original setting.
5. Carefully remove the large plastic black top cover. Under this cover you will see the circuit board that reads the air flap position and sends a signal to the ECU.
6. Check all the wire connections.
7. Use a Q-tip with alcohol (gin??no.) and carefully clean the contacts.
8. Check the wear on the circuit board and see if there looks like excessive wear.
You can remove the board if the heat film is bad and re-install the parts on another similar housing like I think the same era BMW 2.5 ltr AFM. Be VERY CAREFUL of the screws attaching the board and PAY ATTENTION to the removal process.
I have never heard nor aware of any rebuilt units in th US. The word was Bosch didn't want that program so the replacement parts weren't available and only wanted to sell new units.
The spring/round cam under the circuit board can be adjusted to manually lean or richen the fuel. On my US BMWs, Alfas, etc., I will adjust by loosening the tension 3 - 5 clicks to richen the fuel for more power. This is safe for these engines as we have only 93 octane petrol. I gained 7 rwhp on a BMW on the dyno test by going 5 clicks out. Always mark the original setting prior to any adjustment.
These procedures as mentioned have worked alot for me as I've been working with these since '85, I think and a lot of vehicles since. I've installed a MAF on my M635CSi to elimenate the AFM and is much better. My Biturbo is sans AFM and after a few other pressing items, the GTV6 goes programmable.
HTH
[/list]
I rummaged through my spares and I do not have a spare AFM at this time. I'm doing some conversions and I won't have one available for some time. Also, the PN on mine is 010. Your 013 is for Euro motors and the circuit boards are different. It'd probably work, but not as well as the designated AFM.
I'm fairly familiar with the Bosch AFM. They're very simple. There is a simple 'clean up & check' procedure as follows:
1. Remove the AFM from car.
2. Spray the exterior and internal air passage & idle passage with a non-chloronated brake cleaner. Be care full of the small heat film strip that sticks down inside the front of the AFM (this is one of the culprits not to be repaired).
3. Remove the plug on the idle mixture screw from the top. Turn the adjustment screw down with a allen wrench counting the total turns until it seats (stops).
4. Remove the idle mixture screw and clean the hole & screw with brake cleaner. Check the oring that seats this screw for condition. Slightly lubricate on install and set back to the original setting.
5. Carefully remove the large plastic black top cover. Under this cover you will see the circuit board that reads the air flap position and sends a signal to the ECU.
6. Check all the wire connections.
7. Use a Q-tip with alcohol (gin??no.) and carefully clean the contacts.
8. Check the wear on the circuit board and see if there looks like excessive wear.
You can remove the board if the heat film is bad and re-install the parts on another similar housing like I think the same era BMW 2.5 ltr AFM. Be VERY CAREFUL of the screws attaching the board and PAY ATTENTION to the removal process.
I have never heard nor aware of any rebuilt units in th US. The word was Bosch didn't want that program so the replacement parts weren't available and only wanted to sell new units.
The spring/round cam under the circuit board can be adjusted to manually lean or richen the fuel. On my US BMWs, Alfas, etc., I will adjust by loosening the tension 3 - 5 clicks to richen the fuel for more power. This is safe for these engines as we have only 93 octane petrol. I gained 7 rwhp on a BMW on the dyno test by going 5 clicks out. Always mark the original setting prior to any adjustment.
These procedures as mentioned have worked alot for me as I've been working with these since '85, I think and a lot of vehicles since. I've installed a MAF on my M635CSi to elimenate the AFM and is much better. My Biturbo is sans AFM and after a few other pressing items, the GTV6 goes programmable.
HTH
[/list]
Regards,
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
Thanks for the insightful tutorial. As soon as I get another AFM I'll try to inspect and clean mine.brookstroutr wrote:Lucio,
These procedures as mentioned have worked alot for me as I've been working with these since '85, I think and a lot of vehicles since. I've installed a MAF on my M635CSi to elimenate the AFM and is much better. My Biturbo is sans AFM and after a few other pressing items, the GTV6 goes programmable.
HTH
Thanks again!
Lucio
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brookstroutr
- Gold
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:55 pm
- Location: Keystone Hgts, Floureyeduh
Lucio,
In your earlier post, I noticed you replaced your AFM with another with some positive results. It seems you have more than or perhaps another culprit religating the problem you are having with the proper operation of your motor. I strongly suggest you investigate all the Bosch FI components to elimenate the good vs. the bad parts. This procedure starts from the fuel tank, supply to the exhaust. This arduous task will certainly pinpoint the root of the problem by one component or a combination of erroneous ones. These Bosch systems were overall designed to have certain components compensate for defective operations of other integrale parts to a degree. However, their failure or level of over compensation causes issues to develop as in your case.
I have developed the posture to replace all these components except the AFM - expensive - when restoring an older generation car to start from scratch. I've never experienced any problems after this procedure if the motor was in a decent stable state. This process will educate one to the car's particular system and requirements as a caveat.
In your earlier post, I noticed you replaced your AFM with another with some positive results. It seems you have more than or perhaps another culprit religating the problem you are having with the proper operation of your motor. I strongly suggest you investigate all the Bosch FI components to elimenate the good vs. the bad parts. This procedure starts from the fuel tank, supply to the exhaust. This arduous task will certainly pinpoint the root of the problem by one component or a combination of erroneous ones. These Bosch systems were overall designed to have certain components compensate for defective operations of other integrale parts to a degree. However, their failure or level of over compensation causes issues to develop as in your case.
I have developed the posture to replace all these components except the AFM - expensive - when restoring an older generation car to start from scratch. I've never experienced any problems after this procedure if the motor was in a decent stable state. This process will educate one to the car's particular system and requirements as a caveat.
Regards,
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
TS AFM have Bosch code number 0 280 202 202 and 5 pins but my V6 AFM have code 0 280 202 108 and 7 pins???
Last edited by sira on Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here's what happened: the ECU stopped working. Replacing it with another one made the engine run again, though not as it used to.brookstroutr wrote:Lucio,
In your earlier post, I noticed you replaced your AFM with another with some positive results. It seems you have more than or perhaps another culprit religating the problem you are having with the proper operation of your motor. I strongly suggest you investigate all the Bosch FI components to elimenate the good vs. the bad parts. This procedure starts from the fuel tank, supply to the exhaust. This arduous task will certainly pinpoint the root of the problem by one component or a combination of erroneous ones. These Bosch systems were overall designed to have certain components compensate for defective operations of other integrale parts to a degree. However, their failure or level of over compensation causes issues to develop as in your case.
Everything else has been checked (fuel pressure, injectors, compression (?) ratio etc.) and it seems it is the AFM that doesn't send right infos to the ECU.
Now I'm waiting for another AFM (though 010 instead of 013) as I've been told they all work the same. The 013 was originally spec'd on Euro cars, the 010 on USA (cat-equipped) cars. I'll keep you updated.
In the meanwhile I'l try to repair the old ECU (any hints?).
Thanks for the support,
Lucio
Bosch AFM for Euro GTV6 (+ 75's and 90's) is:sira wrote:TS AFM have Bosch code number 0 280 202 202 and 5 pins but my V6 AFM have code 0 280 202 180 and 7 pins???
0 280 202 013
Bosch code for USA cars (including Milano's) is 0 280 202 010.
Dunno where your 202 180 comes from. Certainly it is NOT the original AFM (perhaps a better one?)
Lucio