ALFAGTV6.COM

[Greg Gordon]

We are currently enjoying driving a Verde converted to supercharged Nord 4cyl power (it's essentially an 80's Alfa Spider engine).

The lighter front end makes the car very enjoyable. It's handling and braking are improved as compared with the V6 car, and the engine is a lot easier to work on. This may not be news to our European and Australian friends, but few of us in the U.S. have had the chance to drive a 4cyl Milano. It's a shame they didn't import the car this way because it's a joy to drive.

The engine itself is serving as a test bed for my Spider supercharger kit. It features JE 8.5:1 pistons and is other wise dead stock, including manifolding, heads, cams (U.S. spec cams circa 1977) and so on.

The supercharger kit is almost exactly what will be in the production Spider kit. The discharge port will be different because the one on this car is hugely inefficient, and the outlet needs to point another direction in the Spider anyway.

It's currently set up with about 9 pounds of boost and it performs very well.

I used an air to air intercooler, water injection and SDS fuel and ignition. The supercharger is nearly silent when off boost.

I plan to dyno it in a couple weeks and assuming everything continues to hold up, put the kit in production in a couple months. So far it has over 5000 miles of testing with low boost (5psi.) and zero problems.

Greg Gordon,
http://www.hiperformancestore.com

[Duk]

Always at it Greg . Nice work as usual.
Please supply the print outs so we can see how effective your set up is at boosting torque everywhere rather than just (potentially) selling your efforts short by just quoting peak HP and torque figures.
I'm really keen to see the overall results. Overlayed with a standard 3ltr V6 would be very interesting
Magnuson MP45 or 62? Looks 45 sized.
BTW, how do you go about tuning ignition timing without doing it on the dyno? Or do you just do a safe 'by feel' tune and wait until you get onto the dyno to optimize?

[Greg Gordon]

Hi Duk,

Thanks, I will post they dyno print out once I have it. I always do that. The Supercharger is an MP62, it's oversized for this level of boost, but I can bump boost up to crazy amounts if I need to.

I tune it without a dyno using O2 sensor values, feel, sound, and basic math. I keep everything on the safe side and then get it closer to max on the dyno. This works pretty well.

Greg

[Zamani]

The throttle precedes the supercharger, which means there is probably very little supercharging whine from the air filter right?

[grant]

That is hilariously awesome!

What drive shaft and guibos do you use to set that engine in? Where did you get the mounts? I assume you're using an Alfetta bell-housing?

[Greg Gordon]

Hi Zamani,

Throttle location is entirely the customer's choice. There are pros and cons to every design. In this case, the throttle is on the intake side of the supercharger, and that does reduce the noise. Off boost the supercharger is essentially silent. On boost you can hear it but it's not too loud. This entire system was designed to be quiet. There is a lot more to that than throttle location. I would say the on boost supercharger whine is comparable to a supercharged Cobalt or Mini.

Hi Grant,

As this is the test bed for the Spider supercharger kit, everything above the block is from an 80's Alfa Spider. That means the head, and manifolds. For simplicity the cams are from a non VVT engine from the late 70's. They are timed at the most conservative factory settings 114/114. The short block and everything below the head is from an Alfetta. The bell housing and driveshaft are also from an Alfetta. We made the motor mounts, although that was pretty simple. They are really just stock Spider motor mounts with some extra metal welded on. The only issue with the mounts is that they have to be perfect or you will blow Guibos because there is no provision for a fore/aft driveshaft adjustment as with the V6 cars. That's probably why Alfettas blow Guibos like crazy.

Overall, swapping a Nord into a Milano isn't that much work as engine swaps go.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

[grant]

Tell me about it...I was mighty surprised to not find a pinch bolt when I was under our Alfetta last weekend. Referenced your drive-shaft alignment web page too

Going to have a few questions for the board in the upcoming weeks as our Alfettas has some pretty stupid levels of Giubo flex going on, but that will be for another thread.

Any idea on the estimated power you have on that Milano? Have you driven an Alfetta yet? The 4 up front really makes things more lively!

[Greg Gordon]

I think the lack of a pinch bolt on the Alfetta is a big part of the Guibo issues on those cars. I am absolutely convinced that Guibo alignment is the critical element in Guibo life.


Regarding horsepower, the last time I estimated power some of our friends on this board gave me a huge amount of crap about it and I don't feel like dealing with that again so I will wait for the dyno results.
Greg

[Nikoror]

that intercooler looks tiny. anyone with a turbo civic will laugh at that
i'm really happy to finally see a 4-cyl milano in the states. should be a lot of fun on the track or even on the road at "leagl" speeds

[Mats]

I think the lack of a pinch bolt on the Alfetta is a big part of the Guibo issues on those cars. I am absolutely convinced that Guibo alignment is the critical element in Guibo life.

Greg

You are totally correct.
The movement in the rubber must be kept to a minimum, i.e. the guibos must be as straight as possible during load and kept un-stretched.

Had a spare prop on a scale tha other day and almost died, the bloody thing weighs 25Kg!!!!

[Duk]

Had a spare prop on a scale tha other day and almost died, the bloody thing weighs 25Kg!!!!

Fat bastard

[fedezyl]

Can anyone post a pic of such pinch bolt?? I'm trying to avoid the blown guibo problem with the V6

[Greg Gordon]

Hi Nikoror:

It's the other end of the car most Sport Compacts get to see:) Plus, you can't see the intercooler with the grill installed, at least not easily.

On a more serious note, it's tough to tell how big that intercooler is from the picture. You can't see how far down it goes. I assure you it's plenty big enough, even for a V6. It has well over twice the capacity of the Callaway intercooler, and obviously has far more airflow. It's also has a lot of ducting front and back to force air through the core. It works very very well, and I have the temperature data to support that.

If that intercooler was any wider, fitting into the car would require a lot of extra cutting. As it is, it fits with very little cutting of the body. In short it fits easily and performs well. It's also reasonably priced for my customers.

Mats: I am totally with you on the guibo alignment issue. So far I have never blown a guibo even with relatively large amounts of power.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

P.S. There is a drag race video with this car in another thread.

[Zamani]

I'm curious why Alfa didn't align the engine and gearbox properly then? Some say it was intentional?? A tuner in Australia said the alignment for the driveshaft needs to be corrected.

[Greg Gordon]

Zamani, If I answer that question I fear it will put this thread in danger of getting seriously off topic. Since I have been working on the 2.0 supercharger kit for two years, I really don't want to do that.

I will be happy to discuss driveshaft alignment somewhere else, although my thoughts on it are already pretty well covered.

Greg