I thought I might give Garth a chance to close his original topic which has taken on a life of its own where guys like me and others are really basically just saying how much we love Alfas just not necessarily what is on offer currently.
Here's my take on it.
1 Alfa should go back to the roots of its success and following.
2 They should make "bare bones" sports cars with a minimalist approach to appointments. If you want a limousine, there are zillion brands. Dont' turn an Alfa into one.
3 Invent new technology to keep the weight down and performance up.
4 Never loose sight of what it is Alfa followers want and expect out of these cars. Value for money performance. Alfa owners want to be ahead of the pack for the same price car. End of story.
5 Maintain the sense of identity that the early cars had. Do not follow other sheep.
There's more, but that will do me for now.
What sort of Alfa cars we want
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
For me, it can be summed up in three simple words:
rear
wheel
drive
How much better would a 147 GTA be if it was REAR WHEEL DRIVE (and about 200Kg lighter, but thats a whole other problem). Alfa needs to be an italian BMW - but cheaper please!
rear
wheel
drive
How much better would a 147 GTA be if it was REAR WHEEL DRIVE (and about 200Kg lighter, but thats a whole other problem). Alfa needs to be an italian BMW - but cheaper please!
Jason
1983 GTV6 2.8 litre
1983 GTV6 2.8 litre
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
italian BMW
ACK!! not another line of tanks on the road! Please not that!Mind you here in the States we get bmw's big cars, all 6 cyl and up.
Alfa, being Italian, ought surly be able to come up with something that looks good, is relatively simple, rear or allwheel drive, and has some giddyup to it. Oh, and it needs to be able to go 'round a corner too.
my thoughts,
zig
MR1 Zig (I made rate!)
Machinery Repairman USNR
Machinery Repairman USNR
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
MR2 Zig wrote:italian BMW
zig
tanks? WTF?Jason
1983 GTV6 2.8 litre
1983 GTV6 2.8 litre
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
I'm thinking on the same lines, hey, there's nothing wrong with a little FWD entry car (think Alfasud or 33), nice power to weight ratio, sensible fuel consumption, now that small cars are coming back.
As far as the other segments go, i'd love to see the return of the transaxle, but innovation, performance and RWD should be on the list when building something on the 159 or next 149 segment.
As far as the other segments go, i'd love to see the return of the transaxle, but innovation, performance and RWD should be on the list when building something on the 159 or next 149 segment.
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
bmw's here are all big 4 door sedans with the exception of the M Coupe and Z4 roadster. They're all big heavy overdone cars that have to make 500hp just to get on the freeway.
While bm sells a fair number of Z4's I've yet to see a M coupe on the road here.
While bm sells a fair number of Z4's I've yet to see a M coupe on the road here.
MR1 Zig (I made rate!)
Machinery Repairman USNR
Machinery Repairman USNR
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
What to have:
It must be rear wheel drive!!! Too many front wheel drive pretend performance cars. Who hasn't enjoyed controlling a bit of over steer with the throttle?
Smallish car with a good wheel base to track ratio. Think MX5 dimensions. Perhaps an aluminium chassis. High torsional rigidity is an absolute must. Fcuk practicality, we want fun to drive
.
Simple but efficient unequal length (forged aluminium) wishbone suspension front and rear.
Front engine but mounted slightly behind the front axle line.
Reasonable capacity (not too big/not too small 2.5-3.0) aluminium block v6 utilizing current day breathing enhancements like continuously variable valve timing and multistage inlet manifold tuning. Keep it NA for the exhaust music and a factory red line of 8000rpm. Have chain driven camshafts, 'cause they can't seem to make a belt last very long. If such a combination can't achieve at least 180KW and an excellent spread of torque, slap the engineers and fire those damn accountants.
Rear mounted trans axle that has an excellent feel and doesn't thrash it's syncho's to death in 100000ks.
Torque sensing/anti torque biasing diff.
What to leave out
:
Overpriced sequential/double clutch gearbox's.
Chassis strength wrecking open tops/spyders.............
Excess luxury's. Heated leather seats, 12 speaker stereo's blah blah blah.
Over sized wheels/tires and massive brakes. Keep the weight down and modest (by today's standards) wheels/tires/brakes can achieve excellent results.
Active diffs, and any other driver assist band aids. Make it balanced the old fashioned way, not by hiding behind electro-hydraulic fixes.
Alfa should buy a Lotus Elise or an Exige and start taking some notes on how to build a light, strong, and crash test safe chassis without turning it into a house. Keep away from 4 wheel drive drivetrain's and build a fun, light (less than 1100kg), rear wheel drive car with some oomph and watch petrol heads walk in the door.
Build in some dam quality control while you're at it, too
It must be rear wheel drive!!! Too many front wheel drive pretend performance cars. Who hasn't enjoyed controlling a bit of over steer with the throttle?
Smallish car with a good wheel base to track ratio. Think MX5 dimensions. Perhaps an aluminium chassis. High torsional rigidity is an absolute must. Fcuk practicality, we want fun to drive
.Simple but efficient unequal length (forged aluminium) wishbone suspension front and rear.
Front engine but mounted slightly behind the front axle line.
Reasonable capacity (not too big/not too small 2.5-3.0) aluminium block v6 utilizing current day breathing enhancements like continuously variable valve timing and multistage inlet manifold tuning. Keep it NA for the exhaust music and a factory red line of 8000rpm. Have chain driven camshafts, 'cause they can't seem to make a belt last very long. If such a combination can't achieve at least 180KW and an excellent spread of torque, slap the engineers and fire those damn accountants.
Rear mounted trans axle that has an excellent feel and doesn't thrash it's syncho's to death in 100000ks.
Torque sensing/anti torque biasing diff.
What to leave out
:Overpriced sequential/double clutch gearbox's.
Chassis strength wrecking open tops/spyders.............
Excess luxury's. Heated leather seats, 12 speaker stereo's blah blah blah.
Over sized wheels/tires and massive brakes. Keep the weight down and modest (by today's standards) wheels/tires/brakes can achieve excellent results.
Active diffs, and any other driver assist band aids. Make it balanced the old fashioned way, not by hiding behind electro-hydraulic fixes.
Alfa should buy a Lotus Elise or an Exige and start taking some notes on how to build a light, strong, and crash test safe chassis without turning it into a house. Keep away from 4 wheel drive drivetrain's and build a fun, light (less than 1100kg), rear wheel drive car with some oomph and watch petrol heads walk in the door.
Build in some dam quality control while you're at it, too
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
A baby 8C?
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
Hey Duk, I think you been looking over my shoulder while I was making notes ! 
My top weight would be 950Kg
Check out Lotus for sure.
Have options to save weight. Why have a heater if you use the car in the tropics? Why have air cond. if you live in the arctic circle? Should be up to the customer to choose.
Get rid of nonsense like electric windows, back seats, brake transfer bars for RHD cars excessive seat padding far lard arses.
A transaxle for sure BUT FIT A BLOODY TORQUE TUBE ya WANKERS.
Fix the gearshift, 6 speed sequential box.
Customer option : Radio, Hi-fi,GPS, DVD, electric jock strap, heated seats, blah balh
Install roll cage mounting locations on the chassis for guys who want to fit a cage for competition.
My top weight would be 950Kg
Check out Lotus for sure.
Have options to save weight. Why have a heater if you use the car in the tropics? Why have air cond. if you live in the arctic circle? Should be up to the customer to choose.
Get rid of nonsense like electric windows, back seats, brake transfer bars for RHD cars excessive seat padding far lard arses.
A transaxle for sure BUT FIT A BLOODY TORQUE TUBE ya WANKERS.
Fix the gearshift, 6 speed sequential box.
Customer option : Radio, Hi-fi,GPS, DVD, electric jock strap, heated seats, blah balh
Install roll cage mounting locations on the chassis for guys who want to fit a cage for competition.
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
Rear wheel drives are coming in 2 more years!
Yeah MD your right, but hey i've never had a thread go for more than 3 pages!
So let it grow!! Haha
Well i must say since i've been back on the road the car has been turning heads a plenty, and now that i have the power to go with it, its the only alfa i'd ever want, oh well that and my dads old 2.6 Pantera, and a 155 V6 turbo, and if i could squeeze another gtv6 in there, then lovely! Damn i think i have a slight addiction. As if boosting my alfa wasnt proof enough! 
But all in all, i'm just gonna keep developing this car, i dont know of many other cars where a chassis just loves an extra 200hp without much compromise.
Yeah MD your right, but hey i've never had a thread go for more than 3 pages!
So let it grow!!
HahaWell i must say since i've been back on the road the car has been turning heads a plenty, and now that i have the power to go with it, its the only alfa i'd ever want, oh well that and my dads old 2.6 Pantera, and a 155 V6 turbo, and if i could squeeze another gtv6 in there, then lovely!
Damn i think i have a slight addiction. As if boosting my alfa wasnt proof enough! But all in all, i'm just gonna keep developing this car, i dont know of many other cars where a chassis just loves an extra 200hp without much compromise.
Selling 1985 GTV6.
Ecu and injectors, lightened.....plays music.
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
I was going to mention no 'leccy windows but remembered reading about the Honda NSX type R that was built as light as possible (within a real budget) and they just left the 'leccy windows in.MD wrote:Get rid of nonsense like electric windows, back seats, brake transfer bars for RHD cars excessive seat padding far lard arses.
A transaxle for sure BUT FIT A BLOODY TORQUE TUBE ya WANKERS.
Fix the gearshift, 6 speed sequential box.
Any sequential 'box would have to be a proper mechanical 1 with a conventional clutch IMO.
Cool idea! Build the chassis with factory tag mounts hiding under the standard trim for the A pillars. Naturally a factory supplied cage should be offered and easy to fit harness's.MD wrote:Install roll cage mounting locations on the chassis for guys who want to fit a cage for competition.
How about choice of diff ratios and maybe a couple of different sets of g'box ratios. Optional composite panels
.Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
Would the Alfa Romeo Diva be OK?
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2722 ... ncept.html
It is mid engined and a two seater (not a four seater). Is this a deal breaker?
The engine technology would need to be updated (eventhough we all love our Busso V6s!)
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2722 ... ncept.html
It is mid engined and a two seater (not a four seater). Is this a deal breaker?
The engine technology would need to be updated (eventhough we all love our Busso V6s!)
'84 GTV6 3.0L
'81 X1/9
'81 X1/9
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
Rear wheel drive with a front mount box so you can actualy go racing with a motor over 300hp and not worried which corner the crown and pinion is going to strip . Even the colloti boxes did not last with hollow shafts and oil sprayers on a big bore 3.7 race cars. Up to 300hp front wheel drive is just as fun on the twisties and definately a pleasure to drive on a wet circuit but dont slacken that grip on the wheel when you overtake on the right under heavy acceleration. You could suddenly swerve left with all that torque steer.
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
I'm replacing the rear hatch screen glass with the light stuff next year, for when my rear louvres are on, you will never know, nor will you be able to see it! Also brake booster thingy will be swapped over to the drivers side, so that big long and heavy bar will be coming out. Rear seats out, etc. I'm aiming for 1000kg. 
Selling 1985 GTV6.
Ecu and injectors, lightened.....plays music.
Re: What sort of Alfa cars we want
More of an issue with the casing design tho isn't it? Simply use the same trans-axle as the Corvettes and there is no way a NA engine would break it (short of draining the oil).kevin wrote:Rear wheel drive with a front mount box so you can actualy go racing with a motor over 300hp and not worried which corner the crown and pinion is going to strip.