ALFAGTV6.COM

[MR2 Zig]

Another bit here is do you want to keep your engine, build it once and run it for a long time, or do you want to keep putting in "new" engines?

Being a machinist I REALLY don't like reworking a project. I want to get the job done on time and budget and all, but i don't want to do the same job twice if I can avoid it by doing it right the first time. (I make mistakes too, plenty of them, just don't like it very much) (sometimes I'm WAY too anal about the littlest details)

Want to build a setup to keep? I'd go with Greg's recomendations. Are you going to make absolutly the most power available? Probably not. Are you going to be constantly building engines? Probably not. Are you going to be out driving while the ricer is in the shop for yet another engine? Probably.

That's my box of soap and I'm stepping off now.
Scott

[Duk]

Another bit here is do you want to keep your engine, build it once and run it for a long time, or do you want to keep putting in "new" engines?

Being a machinist I REALLY don't like reworking a project. I want to get the job done on time and budget and all, but i don't want to do the same job twice if I can avoid it by doing it right the first time. (I make mistakes too, plenty of them, just don't like it very much) (sometimes I'm WAY too anal about the littlest details)

Want to build a setup to keep? I'd go with Greg's recomendations. Are you going to make absolutly the most power available? Probably not. Are you going to be constantly building engines? Probably not. Are you going to be out driving while the ricer is in the shop for yet another engine? Probably.

That's my box of soap and I'm stepping off now.
Scott

MR2Zig If your calling the example that I've given a ricer, I'll tell you straight up to pull your head in!
This guy has build himself a 400KW (535HP)@ the REAR WHEELS car, using an internally standard Toyota engine that isn't a factory forced induction engine to start with, has been flogging the crap out of said engine for years (read: race track, drags and plenty of burnouts) and it lives a very happy healthy life to this day.
If you don't like Japanese engines, that's your choice. But if you can't acknowledge the performance and strength of Japanese engines straight out of the box (Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi in particular), then you need to get out from under your rock and see what people who know what they are doing, can achieve with internally standard engines.
Ignorance and moronic statements are a curse.

An error of mine: (Only)320RWKW

[Greg Gordon]

Duk, I don't think Scott was referring to the Toyota V8 you wrote about. Over here in the U.S. there are a lot of ricers that make huge power, and suffer catastrophic engine failures all the time. Of course there are also a lot of well built examples that put out massive power and hold up well.

Greg

[MR2 Zig]

Thanks Greg!

What I've seen a bunch of is the smaller engines with big turbos and/or nitrous oxide injection that have catastrophic engine meltdowns on a regular basis.

When I see the bigger more expensive Japanese engines I see a more rational approach...more akin to how the Alfas get built up (or other european brands as well).

All my blathering goes out the window when you get into a level of racing where one is expected to rebuild/replace the engine after each day at the track (I'm thnking mostly drag here as opposed to road).

Scott

[GarthW]

Ok, i must say jap engines are amazing. 800hp+ from a standard bottom end on a 2JZ! Guys chucking 2JZ's into toyota cressidas and getting low 8 sec quarter mile times, amazing. Apparently toyota is the new king of performance engine next to the nissan RB series. Guys are now throwing in toyota engines in nissan R32's, etc for they are stronger.
I asked a guy the other day who is very cluey about engines, i said to him i would like to get 500hp from a 3.2 24v Quadcam. He said it wouldnt handle it very well, would have to spend $10k on a steel crank to handle the power, so around $20k would be spent just on internals, so really wnen you look at what the jap guys are doing, you would be crazy to do up a alfa 24v for 500hp, just wouldnt be worth it.

Anyone out there achieved a reliable 500 ponies from the engine mentioned?
Boosted of course!

[patzo_3l]

a steel crank for a reliable 500hp? standard one will do just fine me thinks and 800hp to do a 8sec pass would be nowehere near as difficult as running an engine for an average lap time of 2mins around a racetrack with the same said hp. theres reliable and then theres reliable if you know what i mean.

[Rookie ROX]

Let's clear it up a bit.

Toyota makes incredibly strong engines. They're completely over engineered and that's how they do it. Whack on a bigger turbo, chuck more fuel in and off you go up to varying figures of 600-1000hp. Even then it only tends to be conrod failure.

Nissan, not so much. The RB series is good, but not great. The RB26DETT can make big figures, but before you do anything you've got to make changes to the oil delivery system. Baffled and enlarged sump, oil restrictors in the head, new pumps, new return etc. Fail to do so and say goodbye to your engine.

I wouldn't say "new" kings either. Both the 2JZ and RB26 are 15+ years old. Prior to that, 1JZ and 7MGTE from Toyota - Not as good, but still damn decent. Nissan, nothing really worth mentioning apart from maybe the FJ series - Stronger than the SR20.

But ultimately, these engines were built for big power, and that's not something Alfa has ever really specialised in. They know that suspension and brakes can compensate, hence the reason we can see 105s chasing down GTRs.

Anyway.

ROCK ON
R~R

[Greg Gordon]

The 2JZ is an great engine from a power production standpoint, however it's relatively rare. The odds of ending up next to one at a stoplight are small. Hondas, Eclipses, and 240ZXs are at least 10X more common.

Greg

[Rookie ROX]

Depends on the country

I see a Skyline a day (how ironic - the one that lives down the street just drove by) because of their mass importation, Supras are rarer, but certainly not uncommon if you hit up the popular hang out spots.

ROCK ON
R~R

[Greg Gordon]

Yup, it all depends on where you live. I have never seen a Skyline, and only about a dozed 2JZs in my life!

Greg

[GarthW]

Yeah Rookie, so many skylines its crazy, S13's also.

Patzo I thought the same, was like why couldnt it make 500hp?
Anyway when i do modify a 24v Q, will eventually see what power can be had.

[Rookie ROX]

You're not missing out on much Greg!

So, what was this topic about again?

ROCK ON
R~R

[Duk]

I'll give this thread a bump .
Greg, I asked the owner of the car I used in my example previously (JustenGT8 from Toymods) if he used any form of knock sensing, and he said that he used no knock control, just a good tune .

[patzo_3l]

recently in australia the toyota camry sportivo with the 3.5 200 kw v6 had to be recalled to change the rev limiter from i think it was like 6800 back down to 6300 i may be mistaken but was along those revs, because the first few batches of engines were throwing rods. now i dunno about you guys but most camry drivers i know dont exactly drive them hard to begin with. second one i recently heard of is the 2.5 litre subaru engine being recalled for something like knock detections or some thinhing like that. not really a big deal in particular just trying to highlight the fact that when us alfas have probelms they seem to be far more publicised when the same problem occurs with the japanese we dont hear about as much. fact is alfa engineers arnt miracle workers and a little too much is expected from our cars sometimes. i mean when a toyota cressida blows a head gasket, and they do quite often you never hear of it, but if my v6 with twice the miles on it did the same thing everyone else i know would be saying how unreliable the thing is. its not as if the japenese engineers know something that the alfa ones dont, its more a fact of money and which manufacturer wants to put in the better parts to make a little less profit. just my 2 cents.

[patzo_3l]

recently in australia the toyota camry sportivo with the 3.5 200 kw v6 had to be recalled to change the rev limiter from i think it was like 6800 back down to 6300 i may be mistaken but was along those revs, because the first few batches of engines were throwing rods. now i dunno about you guys but most camry drivers i know dont exactly drive them hard to begin with. second one i recently heard of is the 2.5 litre subaru engine being recalled for something like knock detections or some thinhing like that. not really a big deal in particular just trying to highlight the fact that when us alfas have probelms they seem to be far more publicised when the same problem occurs with the japanese we dont hear about as much. fact is alfa engineers arnt miracle workers and a little too much is expected from our cars sometimes. i mean when a toyota cressida blows a head gasket, and they do quite often you never hear of it, but if my v6 with twice the miles on it did the same thing everyone else i know would be saying how unreliable the thing is. its not as if the japenese engineers know something that the alfa ones dont, its more a fact of money and which manufacturer wants to put in the better parts to make a little less profit. just my 2 cents.