ALFAGTV6.COM

[Jim K]

Just learned the price info from P.Spruell re. the new pistons...as you see them, they sell for $1612, special order. At the same time, they are offering their previous 3liter pistons (the second pic above) at $1314 (both prices w/o rings). Well, that's that. And, I forgot, they are both 10.5:1 CR.
Jim K.

[Greg Gordon]

Jim: You have done some fantastic work here. Just a few years ago, the hot setup for a 12 valve 3.0 was a set of 164S pistons, 164S cams, a set of headers and a reworked ECU.

Now, largely thanks to you we have better pistons, rods, big valves, a huge amount of porting data (in your book), and big bore headers. We have everything we need to build a really hot 12V normally aspirated engine.

Mats: I have experimented with the wrist pin offset. Once they are in the motor, I can't notice any difference with the pins centered vs the stock offset. I don't doubt that the offset can contribute to noise, but with two sets of otherwise identical pistons, it didn't seem to make any difference.

Greg

[Mats]

Jim: You have done some fantastic work here. Just a few years ago, the hot setup for a 12 valve 3.0 was a set of 164S pistons, 164S cams, a set of headers and a reworked ECU.

Now, largely thanks to you we have better pistons, rods, big valves, a huge amount of porting data (in your book), and big bore headers. We have everything we need to build a really hot 12V normally aspirated engine.

Ditto!
Good Job! Now, when is the turbo book coming out?

Mats: I have experimented with the wrist pin offset. Once they are in the motor, I can't notice any difference with the pins centered vs the stock offset. I don't doubt that the offset can contribute to noise, but with two sets of otherwise identical pistons, it didn't seem to make any difference.

Greg

Ok, guess it's one of those things you can use if you have a large development budget and the time to validate (i.e. an OEM).

[Jim K]

Turbo book??...Ahahahahahahahahah!
I'll post pics of all I do and bull$hit about everything but noooooo book!
The engine isn't out yet, I'm getting all the necessary stuff together first. I've settled on the turbo issue so far and will order it by end of this week. Will update!
Anyway Mats, who the hell would be interested in a Turbo book; think of the few markets these cars was sold! I'll tell you though, after seriously messing with these cars for some time and driving some good examples, I think that very many V6 owners would like to replace their big lumps with these little mothers, although with improved electronics. Ok, if you're crazy about torque from idle forget it, but everywhere over 2400-2500...can you imagine how two 75's would compare in the track? A big V6 and a 1.8T? I've tried this exact thing here with mine; the V6 had 217hp and the 1.8T somewhere around 180 (stock 155hp, many kms with only a 1bar chip which half-worked). V6:1390kg, 1.8T:1245kg (weighed). Same transmissions (3.9:1 LSD) plus the little one had $hitty semislicks while the V6 had good 540S's. The 1.8T was within 1sec of the V6 and it didn't have the RSR suspension yet, just a 28mm swaybar and harder springs!! Case closed. The only worthy adversary to a good 1.8T would be a GG 3liter...hmmm! Interesting comparison!
Jim K.

[Mats]

I know, I know...

We have several turbo and V6 cars in or series and no doubt the turbo ones are much quicker. They tend to be in a faster class though due to regulations (and rightly so).

We should start an I4 Turbo thread and share our builds, I guess it's no use keeping my build a "secret" any more.
Still waiting from my parts from the workshop though, incredibly annoying!

[Jim K]

An I4T thread HERE??? Noticed the URL?
Share info? Right...you, me and... 2-3 guys can communicate this stuff with emails, nobody else gives a hoot about a similar thread I think.
Jim K.

[MALDI]

So the gurus on this board have concluded that a forced-induction 1.8L 4-cylinder is better than a normally-aspirated 2.5L 6-cylinder?

[Jim K]

Define "better"....

[MALDI]

The 1.8T was within 1sec of the V6 and it didn't have the RSR suspension yet, just a 28mm swaybar and harder springs!! Case closed.

I thought you already had!

[Zamani]

Yeah, but I suspect the 1.8T has euro bumpers and the V6 has the US bumpers. 40 lbs hanging at the edge of the car.

[Jim K]

Z-man...so, we turn up the boost for another say, 20hp, heheh!
Maldi, my personal preference doesn't count.
-Better as in std Alfa Romeo issue performance?
-Average fuel economy?
-Routine maintenance/rebuild costs?
-Potential hp?
-Cost for additional hp?
-Tight autocross performance?
-Open track performance?
-...'Ring performance?
-Long term reliability?
-Handling?
-Fuel economy and emissions?
I'm sure everyone has their own priorities and one definite answer is not possible.
I figure if it was simple as black/white, one of the two models wouldn't exist!
Jim K.

[MALDI]

I agree, I'm just yanking your chain!

[Mats]

I never said anything about 1.8...

Who cares about stock engines anyway?

[Jim K]

Ok Mats, you do a xyz liter engine and I'm keeping the 1.8 size but that's where stock similarity ends.
Jim K.

[Greg Gordon]

We are dangerously close to changing topics here, but I just have to chime in on the V6 vs 4cyl debate.

I prefer the V6, but for total performance there is no question the 4cyl has the overall advantage. Why? Because once again, the transaxle is our biggest limiting factor, and I have no doubt that with enough boost, the 4cyl could break it. So...with two cars with equal power, the lighter one will have the edge.

We are currently testing a supercharged 4cyl in a Milano. Right now it's a nearly stock motor, the only mod is 8.5:1 pistons (JEs coincidently). Even with just 3psi I think it's faster than a stock 2.5 Milano. I will start a new thread on this as soon as I have more information. (for those of you who own my book, the short block of this engine is pictured in there somewhere.)

Greg