Some progress - pics to be posted on Sunday night.
Have you have been out to PR this year?
One thing that has always annoyed me whenever I have examined this engine closely is the liberal use of Silicone Gasket Sealer - and that includes the head gasket. In this shot you can see a thick ribbon of the stuff has been applied to the Head Gasket, oozed out copiously when the head was torqued and is now just waiting to be eroded away and subsequently washed into the oil passages or oil pump. I rebuilt my 3 liter 12v and never used a drop of the stuff for this very reason...
Is this a common practice to use Silicone Gasket Maker on 24v engine head gaskets for some reason?
Is this a common practice to use Silicone Gasket Maker on 24v engine head gaskets for some reason?
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- siliconeasketMakerOnHeadGasket.jpg (82.47 KiB) Viewed 6988 times
Last edited by Michael on Sun May 11, 2008 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
Next issue...
In my 944 Turbo, the pivot bolt for the timing belt tensioner was prone to shearing off at the block so I used to replace the stud as routing maintenance (30k Mile intervals). If possible, I'd like to replace the similar one on the Alfa engine too - it is the stud indicated by the arrow in tensioner_Pivot_Bolt.jpg. Anyone know if these are available in the US? Looks like a dealer item...
Also, examining the tensioner closely, there is a lot of play around the shaft indicated by the arrow in Tensioner_Pivot_play.001.jpg, in fact, you can even see the gap in the photo when I pulled the tensioner a bit. Anyone know where can find a replacement brass bushing?
Is this a critical issue?
Part Numbers for both of these would be ideal.
In my 944 Turbo, the pivot bolt for the timing belt tensioner was prone to shearing off at the block so I used to replace the stud as routing maintenance (30k Mile intervals). If possible, I'd like to replace the similar one on the Alfa engine too - it is the stud indicated by the arrow in tensioner_Pivot_Bolt.jpg. Anyone know if these are available in the US? Looks like a dealer item...
Also, examining the tensioner closely, there is a lot of play around the shaft indicated by the arrow in Tensioner_Pivot_play.001.jpg, in fact, you can even see the gap in the photo when I pulled the tensioner a bit. Anyone know where can find a replacement brass bushing?
Is this a critical issue?
Part Numbers for both of these would be ideal.
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- tensioner_Pivot_Bolt.jpg (101.8 KiB) Viewed 6991 times
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- Tensioner_Pivot_play.001.jpg (85.66 KiB) Viewed 6993 times
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Michael,
It´s common practice to use a lot of silicone gasket maker when assembling engines. It greatly reduces the chance of an oil leak. However, the drawback (and probably the reason most Alfa manuals say not to use it) is that it will find it´s way into the oil and from there deteriorate and end up in the combustion chamber. It will then burn up, go out the exhaust and quickly damage the O2 sensor.
Many performance shops use it because they don`t want to explain to a customer why their new engine is leaking oil, and figure most hard core race engines don´t need an O2 sensor anyway.
For what it´s worth, I never use silicone sealant on any of the engine gaskets.
Greg
It´s common practice to use a lot of silicone gasket maker when assembling engines. It greatly reduces the chance of an oil leak. However, the drawback (and probably the reason most Alfa manuals say not to use it) is that it will find it´s way into the oil and from there deteriorate and end up in the combustion chamber. It will then burn up, go out the exhaust and quickly damage the O2 sensor.
Many performance shops use it because they don`t want to explain to a customer why their new engine is leaking oil, and figure most hard core race engines don´t need an O2 sensor anyway.
For what it´s worth, I never use silicone sealant on any of the engine gaskets.
Greg
Hi Greg:
I'm really dubious about the use of this stuff on the head gaskets - I have never seen that before. Every manual I have seen admonishes against the use of sealers on the head gasket saying that both surfaces should be scrupulously cleaned before assembly. I guess I can only hope that the head will not blow.
Also, perhaps they used O2 sensor safe sealer? I hope so since I'm using a wide band sensor which is quite expensive to replace. I'm more worried about the bits clogging up the pump and oil galleries.
I'm really dubious about the use of this stuff on the head gaskets - I have never seen that before. Every manual I have seen admonishes against the use of sealers on the head gasket saying that both surfaces should be scrupulously cleaned before assembly. I guess I can only hope that the head will not blow.
Also, perhaps they used O2 sensor safe sealer? I hope so since I'm using a wide band sensor which is quite expensive to replace. I'm more worried about the bits clogging up the pump and oil galleries.
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
Mike,The grey silicone used here is acceptable and I use the exact same stuff ON MODIFIED AND BIG BORE engines.
Do not be concerned that that will end up in the sump , it is damn resilient and you will see it there evrytime you remove the cam cover.
The tensioner bolt is rather loose on the 164 based engines..Once tightened its pretty solid.
Do not be concerned that that will end up in the sump , it is damn resilient and you will see it there evrytime you remove the cam cover.
The tensioner bolt is rather loose on the 164 based engines..Once tightened its pretty solid.
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
Mike, these 164 engines are notorious for leaking oil around the cam cover especially at front between two cams thats why the next generation came with a new designcam covers and gasket which are bullet proof. I have a constant leak there which was on solved with lots of silicone BUT put on outside edge. Good thing is to check that the cam cover bolts can go all the way in to pull cover down tightly. Bit of a b!!@$# to do one under booster if thread is stuffed or full of junk. The loctite silicone never breaks off. Got five 164 engines with now a total of 1mil km's and no failure on shearing bolt on tensioner off. Having said that you could be the first.
Good luck
Good luck
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
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MerrilGordon
- Gold
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:55 pm
- Location: Marysville, WA. USA
Hi Mike,
I had a fun time at Bremerton Raceway Park.
I've got Toyo Proxis track tires and had them on for the second time.
What a difference compared to old hard highway tires.
Did have an issue with coolent overflowing out of the new aluminum surge tank. I'll install a catch bottle, but it may be the radiator needs flushing or replacing what with its age.
I believe you've resolved any brake problems you may have had with your GTV6. I forget what year your's was. Early ones like mine had too much rear bias. I put in a brake bias controller (thanks Group2) and that solved that problem. Something to keep in mind when you get back on the track.
Once you get your car back on the road, I'm sure there will be some development issues to further sort out. Hopefully that won't discourage you. It will just be some more work. Hopefully you'll have it going by mid summer and we can see you at Pacific Raceway then.
A longterm target to prepare for is the national convention in Portland. I figure the NWARC track rats always need to make a good showing when the convention is that close. Hopefully your car will be fully sorted by then and you'll have your driving skills up to a good practiced level.
Looking forward to seeing you on the track again,
Merril
I had a fun time at Bremerton Raceway Park.
I've got Toyo Proxis track tires and had them on for the second time.
What a difference compared to old hard highway tires.
Did have an issue with coolent overflowing out of the new aluminum surge tank. I'll install a catch bottle, but it may be the radiator needs flushing or replacing what with its age.
I believe you've resolved any brake problems you may have had with your GTV6. I forget what year your's was. Early ones like mine had too much rear bias. I put in a brake bias controller (thanks Group2) and that solved that problem. Something to keep in mind when you get back on the track.
Once you get your car back on the road, I'm sure there will be some development issues to further sort out. Hopefully that won't discourage you. It will just be some more work. Hopefully you'll have it going by mid summer and we can see you at Pacific Raceway then.
A longterm target to prepare for is the national convention in Portland. I figure the NWARC track rats always need to make a good showing when the convention is that close. Hopefully your car will be fully sorted by then and you'll have your driving skills up to a good practiced level.
Looking forward to seeing you on the track again,
Merril
82 GTV6 3.0
Thanks for the update - I'm getting closer by the day.
Some new pics...
It took ages to find a solution to the problem of the rotten gas pedal boot. The rubber had disintegrated and this part is (of course) NLA.
I eventually found that the late 90's style VW golfs and jettas have a boot on the clutch cable which is pretty close. I bonded the replacement to the base of the old part (which was still in OK condition).
Coil packs are mounted behind the bonnet catch assembly - allowing enough room for the windscreen wiper assembly. Its actually mounted using the bonnet catch bracket with rubber vibration dampers. Anyone know if this part should be grounded to chassis though?
Mounting the coil packs here will keep the plug wiring shorter/neater and allow me to reuse my Magnecore wires (which are awesome).
Working on the wiring now - anyone have a circuit daigram for the combi relay? I'd thought one of the wires was 'ignition-on' but cannot seem to find it in the bundle. Which wire goes to the fuel pump?
Some new pics...
It took ages to find a solution to the problem of the rotten gas pedal boot. The rubber had disintegrated and this part is (of course) NLA.
I eventually found that the late 90's style VW golfs and jettas have a boot on the clutch cable which is pretty close. I bonded the replacement to the base of the old part (which was still in OK condition).
Coil packs are mounted behind the bonnet catch assembly - allowing enough room for the windscreen wiper assembly. Its actually mounted using the bonnet catch bracket with rubber vibration dampers. Anyone know if this part should be grounded to chassis though?
Mounting the coil packs here will keep the plug wiring shorter/neater and allow me to reuse my Magnecore wires (which are awesome).
Working on the wiring now - anyone have a circuit daigram for the combi relay? I'd thought one of the wires was 'ignition-on' but cannot seem to find it in the bundle. Which wire goes to the fuel pump?
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- CoilPacks001.jpg (89.84 KiB) Viewed 6451 times
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- CoilPacks002.jpg (71.59 KiB) Viewed 6450 times
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Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
If GTV6 same as Milano, the pink-white is power from the combo relay to the fuel pump. I assume you will be using the GoTech to turn the fuel-pump on and off. If you have the GoTech Pro, then use an optional output, and turn the fuel pump on (through a relay) when RPM is above, say 300. Probably easier to use a generic relay instead of re-using the combo relay.
BTW, if the GTV6 is the same as the Milano, I think all relevant wires (interfacing the car harness and the GoTech) are described in my old, old, GoTech Standard install thread (though since it wasn't a Pro, I didn't use the GoTech to turn the fuel pump on and off, which you should for safety).
Jes
BTW, if the GTV6 is the same as the Milano, I think all relevant wires (interfacing the car harness and the GoTech) are described in my old, old, GoTech Standard install thread (though since it wasn't a Pro, I didn't use the GoTech to turn the fuel pump on and off, which you should for safety).
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
Ciao Alfisti!
Nice Forum you got here, i looked through a few of your topics and am pretty amazed of the things you do with your Alfettas /75ers. How is the Situation with Alfa Romeos in America (Spare parts, new Cars..) ?
best regards,
Benjamin
Nice Forum you got here, i looked through a few of your topics and am pretty amazed of the things you do with your Alfettas /75ers. How is the Situation with Alfa Romeos in America (Spare parts, new Cars..) ?
best regards,
Benjamin
Alfa 147 GTA V6
Alfa Nuova 156 JTD
Alfa 75 2,5 Milano
MaseraTi Biturbo
Alfa Nuova 156 JTD
Alfa 75 2,5 Milano
MaseraTi Biturbo
Hi Benjamin - as you can imagine, its tough to get almost everything.
No new Alfa has been sold in the US since they pulled out in 1995.
No new Alfa has been sold in the US since they pulled out in 1995.
Last edited by Michael on Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
I'm installing this Aeromotive A1000-6 Fuel Pressure regulator - see drawing below.
All is hooked up except #7 - that is the fuel return line. I need to plumb a hose between fitting #7 (which is ~6mm) and the standard Alfa fuel pipe which is ~8mm.
I'm using Earl's Super Stock Hose 250 psi (overkill on the return line...) but good quality, AN Size -04 which is 1/4" ID ~6.3 mm .
I'm finding it impossible to stretch this hose over the 8mm Alfa fuel return pipe because the hose is really rigid. I have tried heating it etc and it seems impossible to fit. What I really need is to use a 5/16 hose (7.9mm), with a matching hose end (#6) but I can find only AN sizes. AN fittings do not accomodate 5/16". Also, I can find no high quality 5/16" hose (Earl's or similar).
I know Jess used these exact parts and it worked for him - is the Milano different somehow?
Thanks,
Michael
All is hooked up except #7 - that is the fuel return line. I need to plumb a hose between fitting #7 (which is ~6mm) and the standard Alfa fuel pipe which is ~8mm.
I'm using Earl's Super Stock Hose 250 psi (overkill on the return line...) but good quality, AN Size -04 which is 1/4" ID ~6.3 mm .
I'm finding it impossible to stretch this hose over the 8mm Alfa fuel return pipe because the hose is really rigid. I have tried heating it etc and it seems impossible to fit. What I really need is to use a 5/16 hose (7.9mm), with a matching hose end (#6) but I can find only AN sizes. AN fittings do not accomodate 5/16". Also, I can find no high quality 5/16" hose (Earl's or similar).
I know Jess used these exact parts and it worked for him - is the Milano different somehow?
Thanks,
Michael
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- A1000-6_hoses.JPG (25.61 KiB) Viewed 5972 times
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6