ALFAGTV6.COM

[SydneyJules]

Hi Gents!

Well, a few things left to organise, however, it looks as though my car will be repaired. Phhhew. Definite confirmation awaits, however all signs point to things falling in my favour.
Nowadays, having a V6 smaller than 3.0 is just unfashionable! I had intended to sell the 2.5 to pay for repairs, but it doesn't look like it's going to have to occur! As I'd suspected, there wasn't heaps of interest in it. She's very much a historic racer's dream engine but most others want 24v!!
Anyway, with a short geared, high revving V6, I thought I should make it into a track car. I will keep it road registered and although it won't be daily driven, I plan on keeping the front windows and driving her around on weekends. I'm a masochistic bastard. I love it!!!!

She is never going to be a complete track weapon because of the sunroof, but I'm considering the following:

*Remove rear window framing, replace with Lexan in 105 type rubber at the front and on extendable hinges at the rear to allow airflow through the car - ala RX8/E46 3 series rear windows.
*I'd probably leave the rear door trims and seat in- they weigh bugger-all anyway!
*Fibreglass bootlid and lexan rear window- will this lock OK and fit OK with seals? Everyone seems to think the weight is in the glass.... damn- lose the rear demist...
*Remove crossover bar for brake booster and mount MasterCyl on driver's side (RHD), or possibly replace with Tilton Pedal Box.
*2X Bucket seats retrimmed in Alfa tan cloth. Possibly Recaro Mesh Headrest ones. Not quite as light but more comfy.
*Ditch V6 fuel tank, and replace with 15USG baffled fuel cell with EFI fittings and a surge tank in same spot.
*And the tiny amount of sound stuff I have in my car would be ditched for a portable box I plan to make with a few speakers in it (hey need Gee up tunes on the way to the track and during the weekend )

*Bug the absolute bejezuz out of MD on "HowthefarkdoImakeashortshifterthatshortshiftsasshortasyoursdoes?"

*Suspension- I can't afford RS stuff- so 28mm T/Bars, knuckle risers, RS watts link and stiffer AR bars to go with the Blisteins, 105 Castor Rods and dedion bush already in.

Spacer plate to push the rear track out (appearance mainly) and some Falken Azenis to get me started cause they're cheap and semi slicks!

Down the track I'd look at vented rear discs, RS Coil kit, boring her out with ITBs or rebuilding without the cams and highcomp for a GregG special to go with the straight cut gearbox I'm trying to line up hehehe

So, now I guess It's over to you to tell me I'm a moron. But please do it constructively by offering advice as to what you would do!

[SydneyJules]

Ooh before I get,

my really top bloke of a mechanic is an absolute bastard because he owns this- and I hadn't seen it with the Simmons on it, when I stumbled across it at the other site. Sorry. I honestly don't normally go there!

Now Z- if you read this- NOW do you see why I like them so much??? Aren't they just horn, or is it only me?

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfetta ... ta30t.html

[MD]

Hello Moron.

Jules, I think the first thing you should decide is what class or nature of events you want to enter when you go racing ie. CAMS or non affiliated. The rules are very different. No point having more stuff on board than you need unless the regs call for it.

What I am saying is build a car for the events rather than build the car and then look to fit it in with all its heartaches.

...somebody has to keep an eye on you, you crazy wannabee jetfighter

BTW You know how you have been living on skid row recycling paper undies to make them last longer? When you start racing you wont be able to afford even the paper on the roll..just ask me.

[SydneyJules]

Hahaha ahhjeez mike- it's just going to be a supersprint car for Alfa Club days and non club days. I'm not even talking about a cage ATM, or at the very most, a half cage. I have no place for a wheel to wheel racer in my life right now- too much of an investment. I do, however, want a good looking italian who I can give the berries to every few weekends, share her around with a few friends, before cracking the beers open.

The reason Im looking to address that stuff is I plan on stripping alot of it out shortly, to allow me to neaten things up and stretch the insurance money by adding my own labour and some extra cash to the pot.

[kevin]

Jules, start in the areas where you can save bucks on what you listed and add in other more important areas. From my absolute amateur experience(but I still have fun) I would skip rear vent brakes and leave fuel tank to start off with.Rear vent for endurance stuff and the GTv tank has never given any of us here issues on low fuel levels. Critical for me is a roll cage which if you undecided keep the rear welded and bolt in front. Looking back I would skip the 24v and find a 12v 3.0 if i really want to go BUDGET as I have found on real tight and twisty circuits the 12v torque in the midrange is a more durable option than really winding up the 24v on gearboxes and clutches and just as quick. Learn to maintain high corner speed and you will beat most chaps in 24v.
Start off with 28mm torsion bar with a RS front antiroll or equivalent. Spend on 28mm discs up to 290mm diameter(so can still run 15'' rims) with Performance friction pads front and ferodo dsc3000 rear. Thats your most expensive items. Well for me it is here in SA. Good FIA race seat, seat belts, fire gloves etc.
As time goes get full RS kit. If you can get 225 semis with a low enough profile it will stick like (%&%$ to a $#%^@. Get a good fan.
Replace all bushes. A good driver with the above specs will drive circles around most cars.

[MD]

A good driver with the above specs will drive circles around most cars

....well that leaves Jules out

On a more constructive note, there are always compromises with road based cars used for racing and you just got to remember that you are there for the fun of it rarther than have podium aspirations. My experience with modifying brakes on these cars is that unless you get the rotor diameters as large as you can at the rear, the car will never reach its maximum braking potential. Unlike other cars that have less weigth in the rear and lift the back end up under breaking to make it even worse, the gtv can take advantage of the rear weight and put some friction down at the rear for a much better combined front and rear breaking performance. You have to make use of this.

Leaving standard radius rotors in the rear (vented or otherwise) leaves them under utilised. Pad size is not that critical but the leverage is. Yes Jules as you know, size does matter.

Absolutely delighted for you that you are going ahead with this project. Kind of think you been stewing on it for years..always ready to help you with a PM if you need it buddy.

[Giuliettaevo2]

very strange... none of the racers over here uses larger rotors on the rear of their 75's/ GTVs... Most use original discs, just better pads and often a 105 series caliper to lose the handbrake-horror. some use the SZ vented disc and very few have outboard brakes( i can only think of the IMSA's and replica-IMSA's).

A good brake-bias-distributor works wonders on our cars. the transaxle can use a lot more brakeforce on the rear than it originally does.

Personally i don't like racecars on the street, unless they can't be recognized as racecars. i'm more of a sleeper fan.

[Giuliettaevo2]

double post..

[MD]

the transaxle can use a lot more brakeforce on the rear than it originally does.

..Well, I think that's what I was trying to say. The easiest way to get more brake force is to increase the size of the lever ie. the radius size of the rotor.

For the record, our race car uses 300mm rear ventilated rotors and zero brake bias. Absolutely brilliant. The rotors are custom made form a combination of ATE centres and Nissan discs.

[Micke]

1) The easiest way is actually to reduce the rear brake pressure less than original.

2) A track prepared car will use relatively less rear brakes than stock. WHY?

3) MD - your brake bias statement will confuse people. As all parts are chenged it it totally irrelevant. What does zero brake bias practically mean....

[MD]

Micke.

You know I value and respect your opinions as always..

As usual I am swiming in the opposite direction to the rest of the sardines...
My simplified view (and experience) on the 920 kg race car :
The rear brakes need the same line pressure at the rear as they have in the front. Bias valve not required at all. My version of zero bias.

Dry conditions.

No experience in the wet. Don't use it.

I like living..

Now for my GTV6

164 front rotors and calipers.
Standard rear rotors and calipers.
Standard Black Hawk pads all round.
Standard good quality brake fluid
Fully serviced master, booster and calipers
All rotors like new
BY- PASSED REAR PROPRORTION VALVE, equal line pressure front and rear.

Result : The front noticeably outbrakes the rear at the limit. Doesn't happen on race car.

Conclusion: Insufficient leverage on rear rotors

Remedy: Fit larger diameter rotors on rear. Did that on race car. Works a treat.


Now be nice to me. You know what a fragile guy I am...

[Micke]

hhmmm....
to say anything about the mazda brakes it would require knowing how they designed them. maybe the piston sizes are planned to be driven without a pressure limiter.

To the GTV.
Did you replace the 2 piston brembos with 164 floating calipers???
Holy sheit!

And if you really did and it's not a typo then did you EVER consider what the change in caliper piston size did to your brake bias? Did you even check the piston diameter?

[MD]

Micke you been on that Schnapps again..

I take it you are talking to me at least I think so but..

Mazda ? I know nothing about a Mazda. Never mentioned the word.

Floating calipers ? Not me. I run the Brembos.

I am confused by your post .

[Maurizio]

Some of my own experience in the wet!

First I also thought I could use more brake bias to the back.

But I kind of changed my mind after a driving safety day (skid pad, slippery wet pavement, emergency braking etc) with my daily 75 .
My street 75 ts has DS2500 pads all around (bit larger bmw E21 front pad), all brake stuff new.

If you really stomp it, the back will lock up was my experience.
Especially slippery/wet & emergency it will make a 75 almost uncontrollable.
But if you at first gently apply the brake you never lock up the back, but you loose because of the larger braking distance....
I kind of did the gently apply the brake approach by nature (a result of driving 75's for years???)

I was stunned that I could actually lock up the back in a standard setup.....
So afterwards I opened a leaky standard brake bias valve I still had laying around to understand the working of it.
And it is a curious device I was surprised that it actually works that well.

There is a rubber with a small pass trough groove between back and front, which only restricts the flow to the back.
So in fact you will get full pressure on both lines in standard setup eventually.
Only because the line to the back is flow restricted you really have to stomp it or brake long enough...

So resume I think it is very difficult to get the bias right and stay with the standard setup/proportions for my ring 75. In dry conditions you can get away with a lot, as you are not on the limit very fast. But wet is the condition to actually learn about the handling of your car.
And I also don't do wet driving on the limit on the N'ring, the margin is to small.

[Micke]

Yep. You.
Mazda, Datsun, Nissan, Toyota, whatever. I cannot remember all them japs. The ones on the race car anyway. (Don't get me wrong. Absolutely nothing against the brake mod. On the contrary)

The GTV. I quote MD:
"Now for my GTV6
164 front rotors and calipers."
And 164 calipers are floating thingies.


OK, I guess nobody learns anything here. Go remove the brake pressure limiters and get 50% shorter braking distance. Please do not kill yourself trying it.