ALFAGTV6.COM

[Mats]

I got a UK Designed/made ECU...

Nice to have the developers in an adjacent timezone.

[SydneyJules]

Just thought I'd add, that the brits don't always use eddy current (ie dyno dynamics) style dynos, alot of the stuff I've seen being dynojet style, which accounts for a fair difference in power- concrete roller of known mass etc

I'm not talking down the AHM 3.3, John, but the 250rwhp it turned there may only work out to 220rwhp here, on a warm day etc etc.

Dynos should only be compared to dynos when they're used on the same day, at preferably the same temp!

They are just a tuning tool. If you want a relative performance figure, go and run it down the 1/4!!! The MPH will give it all away! Alot of guys claiming silly power figures have had the real world beat them into submission when trying to explain how 500rwhp ran 110mph etc etc

Regardless, I'm sure she is an absolute beauty of a machine.... and i'm certainly envious!

Garth- Clarkson achieved what he aimed to-

he got a rise out of you!

[Duk]

They are just a tuning tool. If you want a relative performance figure, go and run it down the 1/4!!! The MPH will give it all away!

But a drag strip run has just as many weather related variables, but now you throw in driver variables, transmission variables (shit, who would wnt to drag race anything but the newest set of synchro's in an Alfa transaxle), track variables and tyre variables.

Alot of guys claiming silly power figures have had the real world beat them into submission when trying to explain how 500rwhp ran 110mph etc etc

Again, to many variations. Have you ever tryed to launch some rock hard, overly cambered rear suspension set up wth shitty cheep tyres on big bling wheels?
What was the torque curve of that engine like?
Driver experiance?
I don't own the bling wheels, but trying to get my Silvia off the line hard and consistantly is damn hard. The start can have a big effect on the terminal speed if you spend more time spinning wheels than you should.
My MR2 is much better, but I nead an better clutch again as the heavy duty Exedy clutch can't cope with the traction of the mid-engined layout and the grunt.

I think a rolling start at an agreed speed over a set distance (like say 1km) would be a slightly more consistant measure of vehicle performance. It would also pay divit ends to those cars with more modest power but beter aerodynamics.

[ALFA GTV6 GP]

[quote="SydneyJules"]Just thought I'd add, that the brits don't always use eddy current (ie dyno dynamics) style dynos, alot of the stuff I've seen being dynojet style, which accounts for a fair difference in power- concrete roller of known mass etc

I'm not talking down the AHM 3.3, John, but the 250rwhp it turned there may only work out to 220rwhp here, on a warm day etc etc.

Dynos should only be compared to dynos when they're used on the same day, at preferably the same temp!

They are just a tuning tool. If you want a relative performance figure, go and run it down the 1/4!!! The MPH will give it all away! Alot of guys claiming silly power figures have had the real world beat them into submission when trying to explain how 500rwhp ran 110mph etc etc

Regardless, I'm sure she is an absolute beauty of a machine.... and i'm certainly envious!

Hey Jules
All good points but...
RE 250rwhp I live in Perth W.A. The dyno used is the Dyno Dynamics 4WD/AWD 450 Lowboy Chassis Dynamometer that is capable of testing vehicles producing up to 1800hp at the wheels! The dyno is built into a specialised room where they can control the temperature and humidity in order to produce more consistent results from your car.

It is the only dyno in W.A. that is shootout accredited look up shootout accredited if you have not heard of it before link is here. http://www.xspeed.com.au/tech_features.php?tech_id=19

It's more than enough power for my road car.

John

[MR2 Zig]

I think his point on dynos is that different dynos give different readings. Even the same company's dynos read differently from each other, then throw the weather on top.

The "certification" of the equipment means that that company calibrates the machine before (and maybe after) installation in the shop. After that initial calibration there are'nt any checks made to see if things have changed with use. So far as I know there is no calibration standard for dynos outside of the company that built the machine.....so every company has their own standards i think. "Certified" and other lables make for a good sales tool I think.

[ALFA GTV6 GP]

Zig you didn't read the link ?...
From there website.

Chances are, many of you from around the automotive industry have already heard of the ShootOut system when dyno tuning cars. Dyno Dynamics, the manufacturer of Australia’s leading dynamometer brand, has for many years been considered the benchmark for both accuracy and repeatability. Now, after 4 years of effort (not to mention a substantial financial investment), they have just ‘upped the stakes’ - Dyno Dynamics has developed a system that is set to become the industry standard for power comparison. The system is called ShootOut, it is being utilised by a network of accredited Dyno Dynamics equipped workshops across Australia and will soon be available to all customers worldwide.

The ShootOut mode system is not just a hardware or software upgrade – it is a standardised approach to power measurement, designed to ensure that you can take your car to any accredited workshop and get accurate power measurements for your car. The results will be the same regardless of which ShootOut mode accredited workshop you select. This also means that results from different cars, measured on different dynos can be compared much more accurately which opens a lot of insight to power readings.

ShootOut was developed by Dyno Dynamics primarily to eliminate "Operator Technique" and as a tool for measuring horsepower accurately and CONSISTENTLY for ALL Dyno Dynamics dynos with Shootout accreditation. All dynos with Shootout accreditation have been calibrated the same accross the board, and should not vary more than 1% when comparing between Dyno Dynamics dynos.

Ethical standards
All ShootOut workshops must abide by a code of practice. When a company gets its ShootOut accreditation, it is only leasing the right to use the ShootOut mode and the ShootOut logos on the dynos, which are bgasically the physical and interlectual property of Dyno Dynamics. We are bound by a contractual agreement which is renewed on a yearly basis with very strict guidelines and procedures whenever we use the ShootOut logos on printed dyno graphs. If a company does not adhere to these guidelines, and decides to employ "Operator Techniques" and manipulate the ShootOut process, Dyno Dynamics will issue the company with a warning. After 3 warnings, the company loses their ShootOut Accreditation. Dyno Dynamics expect Dyno Operators to be honest and follow the required procedures in accordance with the ShootOut Agreement between the operator and Dyno Dynamics.

Proof of integrity
1. All ShootOut graph runs must be supervised by an accredited ShootOut scrutineer.
2. When the Shootineer is confident that the run has been performed to Dyno Dynamics’ ShootOut standards, the approved ShootOut logo will be added to the graph.
3. Test conditions and other data is printed on the lower edge of the graph as further evidence of accuracy.
4. When the graph is printed, the Shootineer will apply the official ShootOut stamp and personally sign it.
5. As final proof, the customer is provided with a checklist to verify that all steps in vehicle preparation for the test have been carried out correctly.

Whether you are planning on attending a ‘head to head’ dyno day, or want your vehicle tested to verify the effects of a performance enhancement – A Dyno Dynamics ShootOut accredited workshop will determine the figures accurately, time after time, regardless of location.

The XSpeed Performance Centre, located at 18 Zeta Crescent O'Connor WA, is a ShootOut accreddited workshop. Feel free to contact us to see what services we can provide for you.

For more information on Dyno Dynamics ShootOut mode, please log onto : http://www.dyno.com.au/shootout.htm

[Mats]

www.rototest.com

done.

[SydneyJules]

Didn't realise you'd had her on the rollers over here, John, in which case (I know what a perth summer is like!), that's a pretty stout reading. I thought it was a dyno measurement that came with the car.

And yeah, 250rwhp would be enough for me too... just gotta figure out how to get it

Anyway, I understand the shootout mode and realise the worth in having a quantifiable figure to determine the state of tune, but I probably should have been more to the point, in saying, I guess I just prefer real world measurements of performance- a 0-100-0 time, a lap time or a 1/4 time.

The fact that the tuning process yields a quantifiable performance figure is just a bonus, I guess.

[fastcar]

By the way Jules had right. The trap speed at quarter mile relies about the HP/weight ratio You have. It doesn't really matter how good You start, it always runs on the same level with the same engine.

Here are some results of mine. You can find runs here where I had gearbox problem, some where I had fueling problem and some where I had no problems at all.
You can find 60' between 1.9 and 3.5 and quarter miles between 13.1 and 16.7 from the same car and almost the same config just repairs happened or raise of fuel pressure. And there's no big difference in the trap speed at all.

0.344 2.058 8.676 @ 133.9 13.336 @ 170.1
0.326 1.940 8.448 @ 134.9 13.173 @ 166.6
0.513 2.082 8.686 @ 134.6 13.353 @ 168.3
0.838 2.195 8.889 @ 131.2 13.658 @ 167.8
0.315 2.750 9.930 @ 131.9 14.632 @ 170.1
0.758 3.383 11.015 @ 129.3 15.791 @ 167.9
0.296 3.554 11.843 @ 127.3 16.704 @ 164.0
1.123 2.396 9.061 @ 134.1 13.783 @ 169.0