ALFAGTV6.COM

[Lancianut69]

Lancianut69

right now so need to do some research.reading and any recommendations for material would be greatfully received.

..mate, just to help you along..

I been thinking you are getting stressed out with all this high tech thinking and if you keep this up you could just blow a fuse or something.

So i suggest some R & R and kick back with some light relief before you roll the sleeves up..

After all, t's JK's main reference material. How could you go wrong?

- Thanks for that! Didn't realise that MAD was still going! ;o))

[Lancianut69]

I am stuck in my annual recurrent training at work. It's five intense days that don't allow me much time for forums or anything else. I am attaching the bibliography from my book. The first 18 items are NACA reports. Numbers 22,23, and 24 can be found in most book stores, I suggest starting with Pat Ganahl's book. Well, actually I suggest starting with my book, but I understand the shipping cost issue, I just don't have a good way around it.

Greg


1. The Way To Increase Airplane Engine Power.
2. Italian High Speed Airplane Engines.
3. Correlation Of Knocking Characteristics Of Fuels In An Engine Having A Hemispherical Combustion Chamber.
4. The Comparative Performance Of Roots Type Aircraft Engine Superchargers As Effected By Change In Impeller Speed And Displacement.
5. Engine Knock And Combustion Chamber Form.
6. The Comparative Performance Of Superchargers.
7. The Problem Of The Turbo-Compressor.
8. Preliminary Flight Tests Of The N.A.C.A. Roots Type Aircraft Engine Supercharger.
9. An Investigation Of The Use of Discharge Valves And An Intake Control For Improving The Performance Of N.A.C.A. Roots Type Supercharger.
10. Mathematical Analysis Of Aircraft Intercooler Design.
11. Effect Of Water Injection On Knock-Limited Performance Of A V-Type 12-Cylinder Liquid-Cooled Engine
12. End-Zone Water Injection As A Means of Suppressing Knock In A Spark-Ignition Engine.
13. Some Effects Of Internal Coolants On Knock-Limited And Temperature-Limited Power As Determined In A Single-Cylinder Aircraft Test Engine.
14. Knock-Limited Power Outputs From A CFR Engine Using Internal Coolants II – Six Aliphatic Amines.
15. Continuous Use Of Internal Cooling To Suppress Knock In Aircraft Engines Cruising At High Power.
16. Effect Of Water-Alcohol Injection And Maximum-Economy Spark Advance On Knock-Limited Performance And Fuel Economy Of A Large Air-Cooled Cylinder.
17. The Induction Of Water To The Inlet Air As A Means Of Internal Cooling In Aircraft-Engine Cylinders.
18. Knock-Limited Performance Of Several Internal Coolants.

The Following publications were also used.

19. Allison V-1710 Engine by Allison
20. The Turbosupercharger And The Airplane Powerplant by General Electric.
21. Sports and Classic Cars by Griffith Borgeson & Eugene Jaderquist.
22. Supercharging, Turbocharging, & Nitrous Oxide by Earl and Diane Davis.
23. How to Build Horsepower Volume 1 by David Vizard.
24. Street Supercharging by Pat Ganahl.

Wow! Thanks Greg, now that really is a reading list!! Have ordered 22,23 & 24 to start the ball rolling. I've also found where I can download the other reports, although I fear they are probably more technical that I can cope with! ;o)

I wonder if it's possible to ship your book to a friend of mine in Philly, who can then bring it with him when he next pops over this side of the pond?

Thanks again for all your time and hope the recurrent training goes ok - whatever it is! ;o)

Cheers

Darren

[Mats]

After all, t's JK's main reference material. How could you go wrong?

I'm thinking that a Nord or TS will never find it's way in there so probably Guy Crofts book (s?) are better in this instance.

[Lancianut69]

After all, t's JK's main reference material. How could you go wrong?

I'm thinking that a Nord or TS will never find it's way in there so probably Guy Crofts book (s?) are better in this instance.

Hi Mats

Sorry, I don't follow you? What are Nords or TSs? I have Guy's book already and used it for reference to build the current engine in my car.

Cheers

Darren

[Mats]

Alfa engines from the Giulia and Alfetta platform cars.

[Lancianut69]

Alfa engines from the Giulia and Alfetta platform cars.

Ah, so are you saying that I won't do the install??

- Ok then, hypothetically speaking - I have been offered a 12 valve drivechain from a 75. Are there any particular types I should be looking for or asking?

Cheers

Darren

[Giuliettaevo2]

What kind of gearbox do you plan to use? is the engine longitudinaly or transverse placed?

If it's transverse placed you'll probably want to use a fwd gearbox. a 75/Milano is not a good idea then since it is rear wheel drive and doesn't come with a good flywheel for your needs... You need a complete 164 engine and gearbox i think.

Here in Holland there also are a ew people who have fitted an Alfa v6 from a 164 into a Matra Murena which is origanally mid-engined with a Peugeot 4 inline.

I would go for a very late 12 valve engine, preferably with the DIS ignition and hot-film airmassmeter. like in the Spider '95. The gearbox from the fwd models can also be fitted with the new original Q2 limited slip diff.

24v is a bulkier engine and quite expensive in parts. Supercharging the 12v good give you a relatively easy 270-300bhp which will make the little Lancia fly.

[Lancianut69]

What kind of gearbox do you plan to use? is the engine longitudinaly or transverse placed?

If it's transverse placed you'll probably want to use a fwd gearbox. a 75/Milano is not a good idea then since it is rear wheel drive and doesn't come with a good flywheel for your needs... You need a complete 164 engine and gearbox i think.

Here in Holland there also are a ew people who have fitted an Alfa v6 from a 164 into a Matra Murena which is origanally mid-engined with a Peugeot 4 inline.

I would go for a very late 12 valve engine, preferably with the DIS ignition and hot-film airmassmeter. like in the Spider '95. The gearbox from the fwd models can also be fitted with the new original Q2 limited slip diff.

24v is a bulkier engine and quite expensive in parts. Supercharging the 12v good give you a relatively easy 270-300bhp which will make the little Lancia fly.

Hi and thanks for that info. Yes, I plan on using the engine transversely placed with the 5 speed box. I had completely forgotten the 75 was RWD. So 164 or late spider is the one to go for. I'll get back to my contact and see what he has. Thanks you just saved me from making a big mistake!!

The 24 valve idea has been dropped following Greg's advice. It's funny (or rather not!) that in the UK, the 24 valve v6's are plentiful, but there don't seem to be a lot of 12 valves advertised.

Thanks again

Darren

[Mats]

Alfa engines from the Giulia and Alfetta platform cars.

Ah, so are you saying that I won't do the install??

- Ok then, hypothetically speaking - I have been offered a 12 valve drivechain from a 75. Are there any particular types I should be looking for or asking?

Cheers

Darren

Well, as you now have realized they are RWD, they are also 4-cyl and quite down in power compared to the 3.0 V6 you have been looking at. Not really an upgrade from a Lampredi engine.

[Bruce]

Go for the 24v, you can pick up complete cars for less then £1000, and transfer the whole drive-train & fuel injection over.

[Greg Gordon]

Hi Fedezyl,

I am still on the 727, at least for now. I fully expect to be out of work any day now as my airline is parking it's entire fleet. However, at least I passed my recurrent training so I am safe to fly for another year! Hopefully I can get another job as a pilot.

Good luck in you training, I know you have been on the 73 for a while so I am sure it will go well.

Hi Darren,

Those NACA reports are highly technical, and worse, they are written entirely in aviation terms and from an aviation point of view. It's a lot of work to sort out the information relevant for cars and convert the data into information we can use. However, they contain the best information out there on the subject of forced induction. In most cases the guys that wrote those reports were working with nearly unlimited budgets and could build and test to destruction almost anything.

The three books at the bottom of my bibliography are quite good. Vizard's book is not specifically about supercharging, but it's full of good information that goes well with a supercharging project. The other two books are pretty good, especially Ganahl's. However none of them really explain how to supercharge your engine on your own. They sort of assume you are buying a kit or working with a car that's already supercharged. My book on the hand is intended for a garage mechanic doing his own supercharging project.

I can ship it to Philly or wherever you want. I know the shipping is a lot, but consider this. Supercharging is an expensive project. The pulleys alone will cost $100-$200 each so just one mistake in sizing the pulleys will exceed the cost of the book. The book includes a pulley chart to help reduce the chance of a drive ratio error.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

[Lancianut69]

Alfa engines from the Giulia and Alfetta platform cars.

Ah, so are you saying that I won't do the install??

- Ok then, hypothetically speaking - I have been offered a 12 valve drivechain from a 75. Are there any particular types I should be looking for or asking?

Cheers

Darren

Well, as you now have realized they are RWD, they are also 4-cyl and quite down in power compared to the 3.0 V6 you have been looking at. Not really an upgrade from a Lampredi engine.

I thought the Cloverleaf 75 was V6? Not to worry - as long as it's a 3 litre V6 with a transverse box on it, and there are no differences to the block (ie specific cams or heads to look for) I guess it doesn't matter what model it comes from.

Cheers

Darren

[Lancianut69]

Go for the 24v, you can pick up complete cars for less then £1000, and transfer the whole drive-train & fuel injection over.

That's true Bruce, but the 12 valve produces it's torque lower down the rev range and comparatively it's a lot cheaper to build/fix/maintain than the 24 valve. I was right with you though originally! Thanks for the input!

Cheers

Darren

[Lancianut69]

Hi Fedezyl,

I am still on the 727, at least for now. I fully expect to be out of work any day now as my airline is parking it's entire fleet. However, at least I passed my recurrent training so I am safe to fly for another year! Hopefully I can get another job as a pilot.

Good luck in you training, I know you have been on the 73 for a while so I am sure it will go well.

Hi Darren,

Those NACA reports are highly technical, and worse, they are written entirely in aviation terms and from an aviation point of view. It's a lot of work to sort out the information relevant for cars and convert the data into information we can use. However, they contain the best information out there on the subject of forced induction. In most cases the guys that wrote those reports were working with nearly unlimited budgets and could build and test to destruction almost anything.

The three books at the bottom of my bibliography are quite good. Vizard's book is not specifically about supercharging, but it's full of good information that goes well with a supercharging project. The other two books are pretty good, especially Ganahl's. However none of them really explain how to supercharge your engine on your own. They sort of assume you are buying a kit or working with a car that's already supercharged. My book on the hand is intended for a garage mechanic doing his own supercharging project.

I can ship it to Philly or wherever you want. I know the shipping is a lot, but consider this. Supercharging is an expensive project. The pulleys alone will cost $100-$200 each so just one mistake in sizing the pulleys will exceed the cost of the book. The book includes a pulley chart to help reduce the chance of a drive ratio error.

Greg Gordon,
http://www.hiperformancestore.com

Hi Greg,

I'll have to make sure I have a completely clear head before I attempt any of the reports then! I've ordered the other books and should have them shortly. I will order your book once I've talked to my mate in Philly to confirm whats going on. Do I order through this site or direct to your website?

Cheers

Darren

[Bruce]

That it does, however, the 24v is lower geared to compensate for the different torque characteristics and also it revs to over 7000rpm, the scream of these engines at high revs is insane.
These are long-lived engines if treated correctly and 12v's as you said, are getting rare and even to rebuild one of these will cost you near £1000.