ALFAGTV6.COM

[MD]

Darren,

I don't know how relevant this is to you but in Oz, it is generally more feasable to buy the entire car if it's on it's way to the motor wreckers as they rarely fetch more than 4-500 AUD for anything. On the other hand if you want to buy just an engine from the same motor wreckers you could pay anything from from 1-3000 AUD for a 12 valve. Ad to this the ability to reuse nuts, bolts, and other usefull recyclables from a complete car makes it all the better deal.

Fortunately in Oz, it is also relatively easy to dispose of the carcass after it has been stripped and the service is usually free as well.

Do the reasearch at your hangout and see what the score is..Might be the same or nothing like it.

[Lancianut69]

Darren,

I don't know how relevant this is to you but in Oz, it is generally more feasable to buy the entire car if it's on it's way to the motor wreckers as they rarely fetch more than 4-500 AUD for anything. On the other hand if you want to buy just an engine from the same motor wreckers you could pay anything from from 1-3000 AUD for a 12 valve. Ad to this the ability to reuse nuts, bolts, and other usefull recyclables from a complete car makes it all the better deal.

Fortunately in Oz, it is also relatively easy to dispose of the carcass after it has been stripped and the service is usually free as well.

Do the reasearch at your hangout and see what the score is..Might be the same or nothing like it.

Very good point MD - I'll see what he wants for the complete car. Thanks!

[MD]

Darren,

My suggestion would be to scan the papers and other media that cars are sold through.Even the Alfa club magazines and web sites. Buy it privately and negotiate. Forget the dealers for now.

Be patient or be prepared to be ripped off.

At the end of the day you can never be assured of getting a good reliable engine from and old car unless you buy it from your mother. So the best strattegy is to assume it will need repairs and simply rebuild the engine to your own specs and a known standard and so you are installing a known reliable thing. All you want is the old engine itself. You dont care if it smokes or whatever. You should be able to pick up one of these things for a song (pitance).

Doing it any other way is simply taking a chance. It may work, it may not. If it doesn't, you will still be up for the cost of the install and have to pay that twice. Think this through.

[MR2 Zig]

MD is right here. Buy what you want and expect to build it.

I bought a 12v 3.0 out of a wrecked Milano that was a "runner". I bought it for an ok price and found a broken top compression ring on disassembly. I'm now building it how I want it.

hth
zig

[Lancianut69]

Darren,

My suggestion would be to scan the papers and other media that cars are sold through.Even the Alfa club magazines and web sites. Buy it privately and negotiate. Forget the dealers for now.

Be patient or be prepared to be ripped off.

At the end of the day you can never be assured of getting a good reliable engine from and old car unless you buy it from your mother. So the best strattegy is to assume it will need repairs and simply rebuild the engine to your own specs and a known standard and so you are installing a known reliable thing. All you want is the old engine itself. You dont care if it smokes or whatever. You should be able to pick up one of these things for a song (pitance).

Doing it any other way is simply taking a chance. It may work, it may not. If it doesn't, you will still be up for the cost of the install and have to pay that twice. Think this through.

Hi MD,

very sensible advice as is the previous. Been offered a 12 valve engine and box from a car that has been off the road for a few years with a failed MOT, but no proce as yet. 12 valve engine and box 800 GDP or 1000 GBP for a 24 valve. I also got the 'these engines as you know as getting rare', which contrary to what seems to be out there. I was originally thinking I'd get the engine and box on their own, and not maybe break something that could be put on the road - I guess I get that mentality from Montecarlo ownership. A fair few cars have been broken when it wouldn't have taken much work to get them back on the road. But I think it's going to make more sense financially speaking to buy a whole car and break it.

I'm in no rush to get this done, so time is on my side.

Thanks again mate!

Darren

[Lancianut69]

MD is right here. Buy what you want and expect to build it.

I bought a 12v 3.0 out of a wrecked Milano that was a "runner". I bought it for an ok price and found a broken top compression ring on disassembly. I'm now building it how I want it.

hth
zig

Hi Zig,

I'll keep scanning ebasy, the trader and owners sites to see what comes up. Will definitely be doing a strip, check and rebuild on anything I do get. I like the idea of getting a complete car so that I can at least hear it running.

Cheers

Darren

[MR2 Zig]

Darren,

You will find that there are 2 areas that wear on these engines(12v)....cams and lifters...and cylinder liners and piston rings.

After getting into mine and finding the broken ring (compression test showed this) I found the lifters were pitted, the cyl. liners were worn and the main bearings, while not that bad, were tired.

Good compression on these should get you about 170lbs. you can do the compression test with the engine sitting on a piece of plywood on the ground....it doesn't move around much with all the spark plugs out.

hth
zig

[Lancianut69]

Darren,

You will find that there are 2 areas that wear on these engines(12v)....cams and lifters...and cylinder liners and piston rings.

After getting into mine and finding the broken ring (compression test showed this) I found the lifters were pitted, the cyl. liners were worn and the main bearings, while not that bad, were tired.

Good compression on these should get you about 170lbs. you can do the compression test with the engine sitting on a piece of plywood on the ground....it doesn't move around much with all the spark plugs out.

hth
zig

Thanks Zig,

I will probably end up stripping any engine I get unless I get a complete car, which I can run around. The only problem is getting another car past the missus - still at this price - difficult not to!!! http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/ww ... egLetter=W

There was a GTV for 1500 quid as well! I need to get the Monte up together and sold before I get another car unless an engine and box turns up in the meantime - easier to hids in the workshop!! ;o))

[MR2 Zig]

I'm not very familiar with the Alfas after the 164, but I think that the 166 engine isn't the same as the 164 even though the size (3.0) is the same. This may make a BIG difference in what can fit in your car.

The engine you've been talking about is called the Busso (after the designer) V6. Stock they came in 2.5l and 3.0l with 12valves and 3.0 with 24v. I thought (could be wrong here) the last Busso engines were used in the 164. They are all aluminum ...block and head. The engine that followed (I think) was sourced from holden in Austrailia and assembled by Alfa.

There are modified 24v engines that have been opened up to 3.7l and 2.5l that have been supercharged and everything in between.

There is a video from TOP GEAR on youtube about a recent 147 with a tuned 3.7, front drive that is absolutely hilarious.

hth,
zig

[Giuliettaevo2]

Wrong wrong wrong.....

166 and 156 also use the busso v6.... 3,2 GTA is also a Busso v6.

The 3.2 v6 in the 159 is the GM p.o.s. They can be recognized by their plastic covering while all of the true Alfa v6's have the nice shiny intake-runners without any plastic covering it.

the later 24v's in the 166, 156 and Spider/GTV/GT do however differ from the earlier types. oilpump-drive is one off the differences and is one of the problems when fitting these engines in a 75/GTV6 as the oilpan won't fit and has to be altered or specially made to clear the oilpump. Another thing, the thermostat housing is at the back of the cylinderheads in the newer engines while on the older ones it is in front of the engine.

[Zamani]

What's so POS about the new GM engine?

Is it A LOT heavier than the Busso V6?
Does it it drink oil like the Busso V6?

Sure it looks ugly, but in stock form the specs looks promising. VVT, JTS, sounds like a good base. I'll reserve my judgment until somebody looks into the heads and see if it is good or bad.

[ar4me]

Another thing, the thermostat housing is at the back of the cylinderheads in the newer engines while on the older ones it is in front of the engine.

That can be changed - fairly straightforward. The 3.7 in my Milano is the newer style 24v V6 out of a 156 - required custom sump as stated above (due to oil drive), and the thermostat "stack" was moved to front of engine.
Jes

[Lancianut69]

Thanks for all the tips and pointers guys. I think the best thing for me to do at this stage is to go to somewhere like AutoLusso and take some measurements of the 12 and 24 valve engines.

I know for a fact that the 12 valve will go in without any modification at all. I'm not sure that the same would be true for the 24 valve. Any chassis modifications will mean an SVA rather than normal MOT test, so I'm keen to avoid that! Then all I need to do is get rid of my other Monte to make room for everything! ;o)

Cheers

Darren

[MR2 Zig]

Giuliettaevo2,

I stand corrected. Which is why I said anything....I knew there was a change in there somwhere, but I didn't know where for sure...now I know.

Lancianut69,

Since you are (i think) looking to transplant a whole front drive engine/transmission unit you wont have to alter the oilpan and waterpump arrangement of the newer engines if the rest of the packaging works. You may still want to change things around a bit...and now know that can be done easily enough.

Maybe one of your local breakers has a few engines out on a shelf....might be a good place to get your measurements.


zig

[Lancianut69]

Since you are (i think) looking to transplant a whole front drive engine/transmission unit you wont have to alter the oilpan and waterpump arrangement of the newer engines if the rest of the packaging works. You may still want to change things around a bit...and now know that can be done easily enough.

Maybe one of your local breakers has a few engines out on a shelf....might be a good place to get your measurements.


zig

Yes Zig - absolutely correct re transplanting a whole engine/transmission unit. Looking at my mate's conversion, I'm looking to do something with the sump because it is VERY low to the ground.

I will be taking a trip to Auto Lusso I think to get some measurements

Cheers Zig

Darren