I've got to agree with Andrew above.
It seems the main problem is that JJ is sometimes using the forum for commercial purposes and it is not good that this should cause anyone to feel unwelcome here.
I feel that if you wish to sell a product, perhaps use the classifieds section of the site or better yet make your own website where all the prices, info, etc can be found. Then you can just post the web address so people can see the info, and contact you directly.
That might prevent some of this unpleasantness
Cheers
Guy
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
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- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Lets not be too hard on JJ. First of all, what some of you are calling JJ's "commercial" interest has very little chance of making a profit. It's really a labor of love. Of course he is planning on charging enough to offset his expenses. Who here wouldn't do that? As it is I suspect it will take years for him to recover his initial expenses.
Second of all, these heated debates on this forum are not new. I myself have been involved in 5 that I can think of (fast cats vs. stock cat, the claimed 15 horsepower Autronic gain on a stock 2.5, Bosch vs Lodge plugs, BSFC, and my recent supercharger thread). I consider myself friends with the people from those heated debates (well most of them). We need to accept that we have some differences and move on.
I can also think of one other time one of our members threatened to bail out on us so that's not new either. ( I think it was Ben Bishop, but I don't remember what it was about.)
Regarding the classified section. As far as I can tell it doesn't work, at least I can't post an add, it doesn't recognize me
Even so, with new products people are bound to have questions you couldn't cover in a classified add so I don't see a problem with using the forum for something like this. I do think JJ should have his own website and I think he probably will at some point, but he is just starting out so give him some time.
I will be unhappy if either Barry or JJ leave.
Second of all, these heated debates on this forum are not new. I myself have been involved in 5 that I can think of (fast cats vs. stock cat, the claimed 15 horsepower Autronic gain on a stock 2.5, Bosch vs Lodge plugs, BSFC, and my recent supercharger thread). I consider myself friends with the people from those heated debates (well most of them). We need to accept that we have some differences and move on.
I can also think of one other time one of our members threatened to bail out on us so that's not new either. ( I think it was Ben Bishop, but I don't remember what it was about.)
Regarding the classified section. As far as I can tell it doesn't work, at least I can't post an add, it doesn't recognize me
Even so, with new products people are bound to have questions you couldn't cover in a classified add so I don't see a problem with using the forum for something like this. I do think JJ should have his own website and I think he probably will at some point, but he is just starting out so give him some time.I will be unhappy if either Barry or JJ leave.
GregGreg Gordon wrote:Lets not be too hard on JJ. First of all, what some of you are calling JJ's "commercial" interest has very little chance of making a profit. It's really a labor of love. Of course he is planning on charging enough to offset his expenses. Who here wouldn't do that? As it is I suspect it will take years for him to recover his initial expenses.
Second of all, these heated debates on this forum are not new. I myself have been involved in 5 that I can think of (fast cats vs. stock cat, the claimed 15 horsepower Autronic gain on a stock 2.5, Bosch vs Lodge plugs, BSFC, and my recent supercharger thread). I consider myself friends with the people from those heated debates (well most of them). We need to accept that we have some differences and move on.
I can also think of one other time one of our members threatened to bail out on us so that's not new either. ( I think it was Ben Bishop, but I don't remember what it was about.)
Regarding the classified section. As far as I can tell it doesn't work, at least I can't post an add, it doesn't recognize me
I will be unhappy if either Barry or JJ leave.
Point taken - heated debates are not new!
Tell me one thing though Greg, would YOU go through JJ to order an engine, when you could do so directly with Glenwood?? As many have done for years before.....
I agree your charger progect is a labour of love, but how is taking an order for parts, forwarding this, then waiting for delivery a labour of love?
Yes JJ has spent time/money but he is building HIS OWN car remember, and I'm pleased he's sharing this with us. As for making a profit.....more than one person knows the truth.
Andrew b
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Dennis
- Gold
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:44 am
- Location: Amersfoort, The Netherlands
- Contact:
There's nothing wrong with heated debates, nor is there in making profit on parts or engines or supercharger kits 
I can choose to buy with someone or not. I don't mind him selling Dawies engines in the States, but if I wanted(could afford) a 3.7 24V I would save on shipping by ordering from Dawie/Barry directly.
Barry has been offering his/Dawies parts for some time now an before JJ came along you could also order with Dawie direct. What offends me is that JJ is flaming Barry constantly when B says he could deliver parts for price "X", because he is Dawies "distributor"of parts now. What offends me most is his attitude towards other peoples opinions or experiences. "Dawie told me so and so, so you are wrong"
JJ and myself have never met or even emailed. I "know" him from his posts on this board. I know a forum lacks emotion, so things can be interpreted wrongly.
@JJ. I would like to change my statement about you resigning from this board. I would like you to stay, but please change your ways....
I can choose to buy with someone or not. I don't mind him selling Dawies engines in the States, but if I wanted(could afford) a 3.7 24V I would save on shipping by ordering from Dawie/Barry directly.Barry has been offering his/Dawies parts for some time now an before JJ came along you could also order with Dawie direct. What offends me is that JJ is flaming Barry constantly when B says he could deliver parts for price "X", because he is Dawies "distributor"of parts now. What offends me most is his attitude towards other peoples opinions or experiences. "Dawie told me so and so, so you are wrong"
JJ and myself have never met or even emailed. I "know" him from his posts on this board. I know a forum lacks emotion, so things can be interpreted wrongly.
@JJ. I would like to change my statement about you resigning from this board. I would like you to stay, but please change your ways....
'81 GTV6 3.0 QV
'91 75 TS (track)
'02 BMW 330i Touring
'91 75 TS (track)
'02 BMW 330i Touring
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Hi Andrew. As to your question about who I would order from, I don't know since I am not in the market for a 24 valve motor and I don't know what the pros and cons are of ordering directly. If the products, support, reputation and warrantees are the same then I suppose like most people I would go with the lower price. If the prices are close I would probably go with the vendor closer to me so I can talk face to face if there are any problems.
However since JJ appears to be the exclusive distributor in North America then that makes everything I just wrote irrelevent.
Any Alfa buisness is a labor of love. I don't know anyone selling Alfa stuff who doesn't love the cars. Trust me, it's not just a question of taking and forwarding orders. There is a lot of time spent helping customers. Even with a simple product like hose kits our e mail to sale ratio is something like 20:1. I think it will be much higher for JJ with a complex and expensive products like 24 valve engines. Of course he is building his own car. That's a good thing. If I was in the market for one of these motors I would feel a lot better about buying one from somebody who had one.
However since JJ appears to be the exclusive distributor in North America then that makes everything I just wrote irrelevent.
Any Alfa buisness is a labor of love. I don't know anyone selling Alfa stuff who doesn't love the cars. Trust me, it's not just a question of taking and forwarding orders. There is a lot of time spent helping customers. Even with a simple product like hose kits our e mail to sale ratio is something like 20:1. I think it will be much higher for JJ with a complex and expensive products like 24 valve engines. Of course he is building his own car. That's a good thing. If I was in the market for one of these motors I would feel a lot better about buying one from somebody who had one.
My goodness!!!STOP!! I never intended this to happen,not in a million years.This is no good for anyone and definatly not good for the forum!
John,sorry bud-This is not good..I have been to blame for a lot of this as well and I wish it never happened.Sorry John..
Guys,lets leave all of this alone-let it die.
Barry
John,sorry bud-This is not good..I have been to blame for a lot of this as well and I wish it never happened.Sorry John..
Guys,lets leave all of this alone-let it die.
Barry
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
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junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
Sorry Barry!
Jim, Barry, Andrew, peace! I mean it. Ask anyone who knows me in person. I will take the clothes off of my back for ANYONE! (Not just family, friends or Alfa people - ANYONE WHO ASKS…) You all seem like nice guys – I am just as easy going. (So much of this is lost in web-land….)
As for the few others who told me to f*** of, but who have never even communicated a single word with me personally, just don’t… - Not right, that’s all. I was a part of the .org LONG before I officially became JJ...
Always happy to help others.
I do get my back up against a wall a bit when I feel cornered for no reason; I will learn to let things roll a bit. (People are always a great deal more cavalier behind a key-board any way, so I will also learn to just let it go….)
I NEVER intended to create a commercial business from this! NEVER! (…and I still don’t want to do this “commercially”…) I don’t have the time, not enough market, not enough margins, too much risk and other B.S. to deal with… This is not what I do for a living any way… Maybe help out a few other people in the States to come up to speed with the nice toys that the UK/Euro guys have been enjoying from Dawie for years… Why not? Just like Andrew said: I was doing this for my own engine… CLEARLY though, my engine doesn’t use the 58 pistons that I am taking with me next week. So, this isn’t just for my own personal selfish gain. It is for some of the other guys on here too!
Alex Jupe sold an engine to Jason Tymms. Who carried those pistons over for him? Dawie saw the invoice and paid me back AT COST!!! Barry picked up a set from Dawie not long after that… John’s commercial interest and personal benefit? I don’t think so. This activity doesn’t even pay for the air ticket guys….
This was ALWAYS about helping Dawie out in the US. What some of you have not considered here is that every time Dawie (OR ANYBODY IN SA for that matter), receives a shipment from one of us overseas for an engine core or pistons or rods or whatever, DAWIE INCURS HUGE COSTS associated with your shipper’s local crew (whom you have already paid to ship the goods…) Just ask. It’s just as a matter of their "local processing” charges... Dawie always eats this. I have seen him do it. There’s pick up and shipping to his door. There are import duties. TAXES ON YOUR SHIPPING… While most of us would assume that he just prices that in, he doesn’t….
Barry can tell you all. We get REAMED on import duties over there and the time involved to get things in is sometimes outrageous. For a guy like Dawie who does not get on the web and does not his emals personally, researching and ordering something like the wide-band data-logger that I am bringing him next week, or custom pistons, bearings, rings or whatever is a huge task! He does not have high-speed internet (so I always have to get pictures to him through alternative methods….)
Pistons, rings, bearings etc end up costing DOUBLE the rate that I supply Dawie with, so we ALL benefit when I do that. I personally paid for multiple one-off test pistons before we had it right. Nobody here gets charged for that time/cost.
Jes for example sees all of the invoices on his motor. I gladly did it for him WHILE I was already doing mine… As a favour. At that point I had not even met the guy!
As far as why someone should buy from me? Simple. Cost. You don’t HAVE to. Call Dawie. He’ll just tell you to call me because of the cost/time savings to him and to the customer.
Barry again, my sincere apologies. I STILL would love to talk in person next week over a B&C, shake your hand and part friends….
It’s done.
Cheers.
As for the few others who told me to f*** of, but who have never even communicated a single word with me personally, just don’t… - Not right, that’s all. I was a part of the .org LONG before I officially became JJ...
Always happy to help others.
I do get my back up against a wall a bit when I feel cornered for no reason; I will learn to let things roll a bit. (People are always a great deal more cavalier behind a key-board any way, so I will also learn to just let it go….)
I NEVER intended to create a commercial business from this! NEVER! (…and I still don’t want to do this “commercially”…) I don’t have the time, not enough market, not enough margins, too much risk and other B.S. to deal with… This is not what I do for a living any way… Maybe help out a few other people in the States to come up to speed with the nice toys that the UK/Euro guys have been enjoying from Dawie for years… Why not? Just like Andrew said: I was doing this for my own engine… CLEARLY though, my engine doesn’t use the 58 pistons that I am taking with me next week. So, this isn’t just for my own personal selfish gain. It is for some of the other guys on here too!
Alex Jupe sold an engine to Jason Tymms. Who carried those pistons over for him? Dawie saw the invoice and paid me back AT COST!!! Barry picked up a set from Dawie not long after that… John’s commercial interest and personal benefit? I don’t think so. This activity doesn’t even pay for the air ticket guys….
This was ALWAYS about helping Dawie out in the US. What some of you have not considered here is that every time Dawie (OR ANYBODY IN SA for that matter), receives a shipment from one of us overseas for an engine core or pistons or rods or whatever, DAWIE INCURS HUGE COSTS associated with your shipper’s local crew (whom you have already paid to ship the goods…) Just ask. It’s just as a matter of their "local processing” charges... Dawie always eats this. I have seen him do it. There’s pick up and shipping to his door. There are import duties. TAXES ON YOUR SHIPPING… While most of us would assume that he just prices that in, he doesn’t….
Barry can tell you all. We get REAMED on import duties over there and the time involved to get things in is sometimes outrageous. For a guy like Dawie who does not get on the web and does not his emals personally, researching and ordering something like the wide-band data-logger that I am bringing him next week, or custom pistons, bearings, rings or whatever is a huge task! He does not have high-speed internet (so I always have to get pictures to him through alternative methods….)
Pistons, rings, bearings etc end up costing DOUBLE the rate that I supply Dawie with, so we ALL benefit when I do that. I personally paid for multiple one-off test pistons before we had it right. Nobody here gets charged for that time/cost.
Jes for example sees all of the invoices on his motor. I gladly did it for him WHILE I was already doing mine… As a favour. At that point I had not even met the guy!
As far as why someone should buy from me? Simple. Cost. You don’t HAVE to. Call Dawie. He’ll just tell you to call me because of the cost/time savings to him and to the customer.
Barry again, my sincere apologies. I STILL would love to talk in person next week over a B&C, shake your hand and part friends….
It’s done.
Cheers.
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
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junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
A Website? Perhaps...
Fortom, having technical discussions about new products and modifications without mentioning price, is not very realistic IMHO...
In this single thread here that created SO much hoopla, JimGreek asked for a price on the runners, so did Zamani and SteveR, Greg Gordon asked about prices on the motors and Micke asked about prices on parts versus having Dawie do the work and supply the parts... That's just one thread on one forum.
Greg is active here and he offers parts for sale, so does Peter Webb, me, Barry and a few others whose names I won’t bring up. Not to point fingers, just saying, I think that it is unavoidable.
A separate website? Perhaps... One more place to keep track of... More cash out of pocket for something that was not a money-making proposition for me to begin with. Far as I can tell Barry is the only guy on here who makes a living off of this market and I am sure that if this was viable, he would have created such a site by now...
Barry, I heard that you were working on it. How's it coming? Asking nicely. Sincerely. No jabs now.
Michael, if you are listening, how about you and I collaborate on a "Vendor's Page"/"Vendor Room" where Barry and I (for Dawie) and Chris from Praggia and Domingo for GoTech and others can go and link-in some pics, post basic prices and maybe keep updated ourselves somehow.
Maybe you and I can do a trade on some parts for you since there is no money on the table here at this stage....
Micke, sorry that your request for prices got looked over during the Tsunami. Please email me at john@reginaceleste.com and I will be happy to provide prices.
In this single thread here that created SO much hoopla, JimGreek asked for a price on the runners, so did Zamani and SteveR, Greg Gordon asked about prices on the motors and Micke asked about prices on parts versus having Dawie do the work and supply the parts... That's just one thread on one forum.
Greg is active here and he offers parts for sale, so does Peter Webb, me, Barry and a few others whose names I won’t bring up. Not to point fingers, just saying, I think that it is unavoidable.
A separate website? Perhaps... One more place to keep track of... More cash out of pocket for something that was not a money-making proposition for me to begin with. Far as I can tell Barry is the only guy on here who makes a living off of this market and I am sure that if this was viable, he would have created such a site by now...
Barry, I heard that you were working on it. How's it coming? Asking nicely. Sincerely. No jabs now.
Michael, if you are listening, how about you and I collaborate on a "Vendor's Page"/"Vendor Room" where Barry and I (for Dawie) and Chris from Praggia and Domingo for GoTech and others can go and link-in some pics, post basic prices and maybe keep updated ourselves somehow.
Maybe you and I can do a trade on some parts for you since there is no money on the table here at this stage....
Micke, sorry that your request for prices got looked over during the Tsunami. Please email me at john@reginaceleste.com and I will be happy to provide prices.
Last edited by junglejustice on Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
