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Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:11 am

Michael: I have never installed a 24valver so I don't know first hand how complex that swap is. My experience is that swapping in different types of motors is usually a lot more complex and time consuming than expected. Swaps also tend to devalue the car in the long run. Right now that's not a factor with transaxle Alfas, but it could be one day. Not long ago lots of owners of early Z28s swapped out thier 302s for 350s. That swap made sense, more displacement, more power, and it bolts right in. Now a Z28 with it's original 302 is worth an insane amount of money.

The supercharger unbolts.

In the case of this car installing the supercharger was easy. It's the intercooler, pipes and especially the SDS system that took the time. None of this was super difficult, just time consuming. The dashboard also took a lot of time. My father says he isn't doing that dash arrangement again. From now on if the customer wants gauges he will have to have them somewhere else, perhaps by sacrificing the ARC unit.

I will be selling kits again. I only stopped because the machine shop I used in Texas closed down and with my pending move to Oklahoma and the SuperRedVerde project in my shop I didn't have time to make more. Now that I my move is complete a new shop in Tulsa will be doing the machining. They are cutting the kits out on a water jet machine which should be really nice.

grant · Post by **grant** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:52 pm

Is an SZ spherical bearing noticeably better than a poly replacement? I figure it costs less, easier to install, and there isn't any risk of it failing or being the wrong size.

How did the car seem to handle with the suspension mods when all was done?

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:31 pm

Hi Grant, The SZ spherical bearing is far superior to a poly bushing in the same location. We actually tested a poly bushing on my dad's car during this project to determine which would be better. We have tested 4 options here, stock, poly, a poly/rubber hybrid, and the SZ bearing. There is just no comparison, the SZ bearing is the way to go. My second choice is the poly/rubber hybrid I made myself, then the stock bushing. The poly unit didn't perform properly.

When I drove the car it didn't really have enough tire on it to take advantage of the suspension mods. Once it was delivered, the owner installed 17" rims with some sort of high performance street tire. Both he, and my father report the handling is incredible. My father says it's the best handling car he has ever driven. The owner is very happy with the cornering and just drove a new 350Z for comparison. He felt the new Z car wasn't even in the same league.

Greg,
www.hiperformancestore.com

cchan · Post by **cchan** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:49 pm

Hi Greg,

I like your project and your hp figures. Are you going to do a 24V supercharger set up in the future?

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:28 pm

I probably will supercharge a 24 valver at some point. Right now there are three big stumbling blocks to that.

1. 24 valve motors are really rare in the U.S. and I don't have one, let alone have one in a car.
2. I am 100% certain I can boost power with the 12 valver high enough to destroy the transaxle. This means that for my personal cars I don't want to bother with the complexity of a 24 valve swap for extra power I can't use in a practical regular use car.
3. The Spider supercharger kit is taking all my time right now. It's the priority. I can't stand driving the Spider with the stock motor, it's just so slow.

MR2 Zig · Post by **MR2 Zig** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:58 pm

After this last car there probably isn't much that is fast

ar4me · Post by **ar4me** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:50 pm

Greg Gordon wrote:The poly unit didn't perform properly.

I run the poly DeDion bushing from Performatek on the Milano race car and haven't noticed any issues. Can you elaborate?
Jes

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:57 pm

MR2 ZIG: Thanks. There are some faster cars out there, but not too many.

Jes, I really don't want to go into that here. That discussion could quickly go down a path I don't want to take.

cchan · Post by **cchan** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:38 pm

how much HP at the crank can a transaxle take before it breaks?

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:18 am

No definite answer for that one. I have seen two broken pinion gears and one broken first gear. All of these were broken by STOCK 2.5s.

I think with careful driving a stock driveline can handle around 300rwhp. That's just theory. Greg Armstrong told me his Milano went through about one gearbox a year. He never had it dynoed but I figure it's around 300rwhp. I read that the famous red South African Twin Turbo racer Dawie Devillers built ate gearboxes like crazy before it was changed to a front mounted box. I seem to remember it has 400-500 flywheel horsepower depending on boost level. I could be wrong about that.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:44 am

More a matter of torque I'd say. Heat is a factor though (power/kW) and a good heat exchanger + pump would be a good idea.

cchan · Post by **cchan** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:28 am

I am probably confused but isn't JJ & Jes Milano's going to have 425 HP at the crank? I think they are going to be using the normal drive train. I am not sure what hp they will have at the rear but must be alot. Their set up should work??

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:35 am

should/would/could...

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:51 pm

I shall quote from the Glenwood Alfa site:

"All this power has created two major problems for the Glenwood team. The first is that the car shreds its 16-inch Dunlop racing slicks in a disturbing manner and 17-inch tyres became a necessity. An even bigger problem is that the sheer power has destroyed all the team's original Alfa gearboxes and to overcome this difficulty, Dawie fitted a front-mounted Getrag gearbox."

These problems related to a race car that was run at either 300rwhp at 14.7 pounds of boost or 400rwhp at 19+ pounds of boost.

I don't know what the current Glenwood normally aspirated motors put out. I seem to remember a dyno chart on the Alfabb with 301rwhp. I think that motor was a 12:1 (probably on race fuel) 3.7 24valver. With carefull driving that should be OK. It might be best to ask JJ or Jes as all of my facts here could be wrong.

rz · Post by rz » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:20 am

i think it is not the hp figure, but the torque that destroys the gearbox