I though you guys might like to see a car I have been working on. It's a Verde with an supercharger and a Syclone liquid to air intercooler. It also has a two stage water injection system and SDS fuel injection with my Stage 3M injectors. Other than that the motor is stock.
This is a true unaltered picture of my supercharger setup. The only thing in the picture that's not correct is the routing of the water injection hoses due to the fact I am currently testing the system.
The heat exchanger for the intercooler is tucked behind the stock grill. All the modifications are undetectable with the hood closed. The only give away is the reduced ride height.
The suspension front suspension is the RSR setup with a full set of poly bushings. The rear is the RSR setup with a SZ spherical bearing and poly bushings everywhere else. It has Giro disk front brakes with SZ rears.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Intercooled supercharged 3.0
Last edited by Greg Gordon on Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
You guys have done some nice work here Greg,Thanks for the inside on it...Ever considered turning the intake plenum around,fitting the charge cooler to the s/c and having 7" intake plumbing to the throttle body?
Now we need another vid clip of the verday running,please?
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
I will get another video up soon. I plan to make a video showing how quiet it is to make Jes and Zamani happy. We have been having heavy amounts of snow and ice for our area so I have not been able to drive it yet.
We have thought about flipping the plenum around. I don't want to do that because it complicates the throttle linkage and cruise control. It also makes it harder to intercool. I am pretty happy with the piping the way it is.
That's not to say there are not any improvements that can be made. The next thing will be to put the throttle on the intake side. We plan to do that on another car soon.
We have thought about flipping the plenum around. I don't want to do that because it complicates the throttle linkage and cruise control. It also makes it harder to intercool. I am pretty happy with the piping the way it is.
That's not to say there are not any improvements that can be made. The next thing will be to put the throttle on the intake side. We plan to do that on another car soon.
Zman,If ya got it,flaunt it!!!..but I suppose if its really whining badly it could become irritating..
Greg,Is the cruise control the same as on the beemer? By that I mean simply cables pulling the throttle open?
Have you seen how Callaway have fitted the s/c to the c16 Corvette?Swung it around with a layshaft drive...That could work on my Jag unit..(Have not totally given up on the idea as you can see...)
BTW,You got e-mail...
Greg,Is the cruise control the same as on the beemer? By that I mean simply cables pulling the throttle open?
Have you seen how Callaway have fitted the s/c to the c16 Corvette?Swung it around with a layshaft drive...That could work on my Jag unit..(Have not totally given up on the idea as you can see...)
BTW,You got e-mail...
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
Looks great, Greg!
Quizz-time: what is missing from the engine bay?
Yes, the milano cruise control is a 2nd cable to the throttle-body. Though, the gizmo pulling the cruise control cable usually sits where the brown PS reservoir bottle is in Greg's picture
Jes
Quizz-time: what is missing from the engine bay?
Yes, the milano cruise control is a 2nd cable to the throttle-body. Though, the gizmo pulling the cruise control cable usually sits where the brown PS reservoir bottle is in Greg's picture
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Wow, some great points and questions. I will try to address them all.
Zamani, you are correct, moving the throttle to the intake side will reduce the whine. In addition to that there are two better reasons to do it. First it elminates the need for the secondary bypass valve between the intercooler and the plenum. Second it smooths out the supercharger's on/off transistion. Actually the on transition is perfectly smooth, but the off will cause an occasional surge.
Barry, that's NOT a Callaway supercharger kit used on the new Callaway Corvettes. It's simply a Magnuson kit Callaway buys and puts his name on. This is sore point with me because for years Magnuson dealers like me (I am a very small dealer!) have been talking about the advantages of the Magnuson supercharger kits and helping to get the word out about how great they are. Now along comes Callaway, one of the world's top turbo gurus. He and Magnuson strike a deal that all Magnuson Corvette kits must be sold through Callaway so he can call it his kit. Now we Magnuson dealers can't buy these kits from Magnuson anymore. The magzines are writting about how great the new Callaway supercharged motor is and it's just the exact same kit that we dealers had been selling for years. Sorry for the rant.
The layshaft is a great idea. It simplifies the air intake situation which is the main reason Magnuson does it. The same layshaft set up is used on the LS1 and LS2 GTO kits as well as the SSRs and of course the Corvettes.
The cruise control is simply a cable pulling the throttle. Stangely most Verdes don't seem to have it and a lot of 2.5 cars do.
Jes, good points. This car doesn't have cruise control. It never did. Here is what's missing from the engine bay. The battery (now in the trunk), the distributor (now in the parts bin), the windshield washer reservior, (now a bag type not yet installed), and that's pretty much it.
Murray, air is rammed into the cold air box from a duct under the driver's side headlight. All Milanos have a rubber strip between the headlights and the bumper. If you remove the bumper this full length strip can be unscrewed and removed. On the driver's side of the car this opens up a clear shot for high pressure air to blow on the battery, which on this car in where the air filter resides.
Zamani, you are correct, moving the throttle to the intake side will reduce the whine. In addition to that there are two better reasons to do it. First it elminates the need for the secondary bypass valve between the intercooler and the plenum. Second it smooths out the supercharger's on/off transistion. Actually the on transition is perfectly smooth, but the off will cause an occasional surge.
Barry, that's NOT a Callaway supercharger kit used on the new Callaway Corvettes. It's simply a Magnuson kit Callaway buys and puts his name on. This is sore point with me because for years Magnuson dealers like me (I am a very small dealer!) have been talking about the advantages of the Magnuson supercharger kits and helping to get the word out about how great they are. Now along comes Callaway, one of the world's top turbo gurus. He and Magnuson strike a deal that all Magnuson Corvette kits must be sold through Callaway so he can call it his kit. Now we Magnuson dealers can't buy these kits from Magnuson anymore. The magzines are writting about how great the new Callaway supercharged motor is and it's just the exact same kit that we dealers had been selling for years. Sorry for the rant.
The layshaft is a great idea. It simplifies the air intake situation which is the main reason Magnuson does it. The same layshaft set up is used on the LS1 and LS2 GTO kits as well as the SSRs and of course the Corvettes.
The cruise control is simply a cable pulling the throttle. Stangely most Verdes don't seem to have it and a lot of 2.5 cars do.
Jes, good points. This car doesn't have cruise control. It never did. Here is what's missing from the engine bay. The battery (now in the trunk), the distributor (now in the parts bin), the windshield washer reservior, (now a bag type not yet installed), and that's pretty much it.
Murray, air is rammed into the cold air box from a duct under the driver's side headlight. All Milanos have a rubber strip between the headlights and the bumper. If you remove the bumper this full length strip can be unscrewed and removed. On the driver's side of the car this opens up a clear shot for high pressure air to blow on the battery, which on this car in where the air filter resides.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
The dash has been revamped. It has a large and very accurate tach, a boost/vacuum gauge, a water methanol low level light, a water methanol system operating/clogged nozzle light, and a big red shift light. These pictures were taken at night with a flash and don't do the dash justice. It really looks cool in person, especially at night. The tach lights up with a slightly evil red glow.
It also has an air temp gauge. This will let the driver know that the intercooler and or water injection are working. I think this is pretty important on a forced induction car and I am suprised I don't see them used more often. It really lets you know when it might not be such a great idea to flog the motor.
It also has an air temp gauge. This will let the driver know that the intercooler and or water injection are working. I think this is pretty important on a forced induction car and I am suprised I don't see them used more often. It really lets you know when it might not be such a great idea to flog the motor.
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" Barry, that's NOT a Callaway supercharger kit used on the new Callaway Corvettes. It's simply a Magnuson kit Callaway buys and puts his name on. This is sore point with me because for years Magnuson dealers like me (I am a very small dealer!) have been talking about the advantages of the Magnuson supercharger kits and helping to get the word out about how great they are. Now along comes Callaway, one of the world's top turbo gurus. He and Magnuson strike a deal that all Magnuson Corvette kits must be sold through Callaway so he can call it his kit. Now we Magnuson dealers can't buy these kits from Magnuson anymore. The magzines are writting about how great the new Callaway supercharged motor is and it's just the exact same kit that we dealers had been selling for years. Sorry for the rant.
The layshaft is a great idea. It simplifies the air intake situation which is the main reason Magnuson does it. The same layshaft set up is used on the LS1 and LS2 GTO kits as well as the SSRs and of course the Corvettes"
Greg,Im with you on this BS 100%!!!!!!! And I fully understand your rant..
I just smiled wriley when I read your reply........nuff said....
The layshaft is a great idea. It simplifies the air intake situation which is the main reason Magnuson does it. The same layshaft set up is used on the LS1 and LS2 GTO kits as well as the SSRs and of course the Corvettes"
Greg,Im with you on this BS 100%!!!!!!! And I fully understand your rant..
I just smiled wriley when I read your reply........nuff said....
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
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twinspark6
- Gold
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:07 pm
- Location: san francisco
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Zambon,
I am setting it up with about 7.5 pounds of boost. I think I could get away with a lot more without fear of detonation but I am worried other things would break, and it's not my car. I need to be conservative.
For comparison I ran my GTV6 with 12 pounds of boost for a couple months with no intercooler. It never had an issue with detonation. However I had to bring the boost back down due to L-Jet limitations. I can control fuel pretty darn well up to 10 psi with L-Jet. Beyond that it's simply hopeless without a huge investment in time that's better spent elsewhere.
Twinspark6,
Dang, I just put that pump on and I already forgot what brand it is. It's made in Sweden and it's considered an upgrade on stock Syclones and Typhoons.
I am setting it up with about 7.5 pounds of boost. I think I could get away with a lot more without fear of detonation but I am worried other things would break, and it's not my car. I need to be conservative.
For comparison I ran my GTV6 with 12 pounds of boost for a couple months with no intercooler. It never had an issue with detonation. However I had to bring the boost back down due to L-Jet limitations. I can control fuel pretty darn well up to 10 psi with L-Jet. Beyond that it's simply hopeless without a huge investment in time that's better spent elsewhere.
Twinspark6,
Dang, I just put that pump on and I already forgot what brand it is. It's made in Sweden and it's considered an upgrade on stock Syclones and Typhoons.