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[Michael]

Gents:

This is what I have - the holes are not tapped for studs and no sleeve exists to prevent blow-by. Maybe it is an early version - prototype of the later headers - I don't know. The ones in your picture Kevin look awesome.

headers_flange.jpg (198.3 KiB) Viewed 6979 times

Last time I contacted JJ about one of the problems I found, an email altercation resulted - last exchange was a one sentence response from JJ to say sarcastically that I had been screwed in this deal. The latter at least is absolutely true.

I guess it is what it is - at this point I have resigned myself to having to sort out the issues myself - I don't need the drama.

[kevin]

Michael,bit stumped by those headers now.Only the bottom flange had 9mm hole to fit over the stud which was tapped into manifold flange. Anyway dont put helicoils in as they will just fail and turn out after a few heat cycles. Weld nut on top. Check face of that flange(at collector) and then if you can get small inert pipe welded in. Iknow this is not what expected to do but while its all out go big. Worth it.

[Giuliettaevo2]

instead of welding on nuts you could also weld a little piece of steel on top of a bolt. then you use the vbolt from above and a nut from underneeth. the piece of metal stops the bolt from turning around.

something like this:


Off topic; check out this link for a spectacular Giulietta trackday/racecar :
http://forum.alfaclub.nl/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0

[Greg Gordon]

Giuliettaevo2, that's a really good idea, I think that's how I would handle it.

Greg

[Zamani]

The SZ manifolds flanges are threaded. One of the holes with threads failed, so I welded a nut on the top side of the flange. No problems since 5 years ago when it was welded on. Not saying that is the better option. I actually prefer GiuliettaEvo's solution. If the welded-on nut fails, you have to unbolt a lot of stuff. Whereas if the bolt with stops fails, you only have to put in a new bolt with stops.

[rz]

hi michael,
is this an engine from glenwood motors with all those flaws??

[kevin]

Giuliettaevo thats a great idea !!Best yet.

[Giuliettaevo2]

sorry but i cann't take credit for the idea...

It is a often used trick here in Holland, especially for the racers. A long time ago I read it somewhere on the dutch forum i believe, and was amazed how such a simple solution for this problem never occured to me...

Working alone on your car always gave you a problem when you had to tighten up these bolts and this made it possible to do.

[MD]

Common solution with exhaust shop around here too. Sometimes they just weld another nut on top the bolt head but just on the edge so it has an interference fit and cannot spin around.

I use stainless nuts and bolts in these applications and for the rest of the exaust system. Never had a seizure or a break.

[Michael]

Thanks Giuliettaevo2 - that is an ingenious solution!

The headers are in the capable hands of Speedware Motorsports in Redmond.

Looping back to the injectors, I have a set of standard 164LS injectors from APE (Bosch 0 280 150 701) this Doc here shows them to flow 240cc/minute:
http://www.home.versatel.nl/mfeijts/SCARB/injectors.pdf

The closest I can find to these in Bosch EV1 config (with a reasonably increased flow rate) are these:
Bosch 0 280 150 945 - 315cc/minute.
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsFORD.asp
Fitment: 3.8L T'bird-Superchgd
High-resistance: 14 Ohms
These were mentioned by Greg as an option.
23% more than the stock 164LS injector @3 bar / 42psi.


What do you guys think? Will these work OK for my engine? The alternative is to have the used 0 280 150 701 injectors cleaned and flow tested ... but the new injectors are ~$250 whereas cleaning will already cost ~$100
http://www.cruzinperformance.com/fuelinj.html

One thing that I am not certain of is that the 0 280 150 701 injectors are inadequate for this engine. I mean really, its just got GTA cams and (allegedly) slightly higher compression.

Of interest ... those GTA injectors mentioned earlier are 0 280 156 038. The only reference I can find to the flow for those is 229cc/minute. I can only assume that to be wrong since the stock 164LS injector flows 240cc/minute. Anyone know what they really flow?


Handy tool:
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4

[kevin]

Michael, if this is any help I run that exact injector in my 3.7 with much 'wilder' cams that are in your 3.0. This particular injector is also used in our BMW m3 here which produce 212kw. What happens is the injector duration just increases to give the required amount of fuel at that particular moment to give correct mixture. It is obviously never good to run at max duration. Ultimately for the most efficient engine which runs on sequential or second best semi sequential(definately not batch fire) a larger injector with a short spray duration is the best.(not talking about direct injection here)
Bottom line this injector is well within in its means.

[kevin]

Sorry , if not clear I am referring to 0 280 150 701. I also ran these on my 2.8 twin turbo low boost.

[Michael]

Sorry , if not clear I am referring to 0 280 150 701. I also ran these on my 2.8 twin turbo low boost.

Hi Kevin:

Thanks for the info - I have found the fuel injector requirements to be pretty puzzling in many respects

Did you keep the same 3 bar fuel pressure?
This utility seems to indicate that for 230Hp, I will need 251cc/min injectors.

injector_flow_req.JPG (36.26 KiB) Viewed 6590 times

http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4
As mentioned, at 3 Bar fuel pressure, 0 280 150 701 will flow only 240cc with an 80% duty cycle. I'd estimate that for your turbo, you must have been using a higher duty cycle and/or increase the pressure.

The utility above also indicates that for 210 HP (stock 24v 164 engine) at 80% duty cycle and 3 bar fuel pressure, you need 230 cc/minute. The 0 280 150 701 with 240 cc/minute seems carefully selected to be in the safe range for this engine.

Regards,

[kevin]

M, they work well as a standard part on a BMW m3 which produces fractionaly more power than my motor. Search for m3 injector number. Maybe that table does not work. My fuel pressure drops to 2.7 when reving up motor. You must have seen my videos to show they do work. (dont believe everything you read)

[kevin]

To help confusion read method of measurement in Bosch's web site.
http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4554.htm