ALFAGTV6.COM

brook166 · Post by **brook166** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:14 am

Hi Patzo,

Correct me if I'm wrong but when I take off the 2.5 runners from my 164 3.0LV6 I am now looking directly at the inlet port.

I think a standard 164 3.0l (from pics i've seen) normally has an inlet manifold/spacer between its runners and the head.

So taking away the 164 inlet manifold/spacer I was looking at an inlet port that appears to measure 34-35mm.

I havent had the head off so I don't know what the valve diameter is.

My questions remains what is the point of reaming out plennums and making up larger runners if the opening into the head is 35mm?

Wouldn't the stock standard 35mm 2.5L runners be a perfect match for 35mm inlet ports?

Then again this is my first attempt at installing a 3.0L so I am happy to be educated.

Caio

Brook166

patzo_3l · Post by **patzo_3l** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:00 am

sorry maybe i didnt expalin properly. u will need to open up the head port also and the black plastic spacer that is in between the runner and the head port. like i said u will need to turn the engine over till the intake valve closes in the port u plan to machine out so that the metal fillings dont fall into the cylinder. then u can just use air to blow out the fillings from the port when ur done. i have done this many times and im sure a few others have also while the head is still in the car. there is no need what so ever to even think about removing the head for such a small task. so hence u are able to match ur 39 mm runners to the intake ports.having said all this if u r not that confident with the dremel tool then best u stay away as the downside is u will stuff up the ports all together and get urself into some real hot water. if u wana stick with the standard 2.5 stuff then by all means its all the same as the standard 3.0. but from my experience a bang for buck option is to free up this bottleneck in the intake. obviuosly ur airflow is for the tip too but thats a whole other kettle of fish isnt it.

Post by **Zamani** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:52 pm

Patzo,

Can you explain in a little more detail how you opened up the runners? I tried opening up mine using a wire brush and some sanding rolls with a driller. Even used a flexible shaft. I think I got an increase of about 1.5mm. Did you actually use a dremel type tool or one of those expensive die grinders? The dremel tool seems a little to weak and the curvature of the runner makes the job difficult hence the need for a flexible shaft.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:36 pm

Easiest way is to make your own runners - I think David has posted his up (maybe 2 different versions but do a search and you'll find them).
Use the 164 injector manifold (that way you don't need to build in an injector boss) and whatever size mandrel bends you want. Diameter at the head should be smaller than at the top of the runner ie tapered - it gives higher air speed and better mixing. You can easily die grind the injector manifold to taper from the runner to the port.
I made a set for my 24v using laser cut flanges and 45mm ID tube. I only had to give the injector manifold a light tickle with the die grinder to match them.

patzo_3l · Post by **patzo_3l** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:41 pm

a lot of experience and determination and the runners can be done with the air dremel tool. it is possible to get right around the bend and get them evenly to 39mm all round nice and smoothly. then to finish it up a soft stone to smooth up the inside. i will take some pics of some that i have done and post up tommorow.

daniel very nice job you have done there but for those who want to keep it standard and i actually think easier aswell then machining them out is by far the best and budget wise choice for similar results to going out and making complete new ones. best bang for buck imho. having said that yours do look good and if i was building a show car i would chrome those babies for all to see. lol

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:46 pm

Hey Patzo,
When I did up my 2.5 about 8-10 years ago, I used a die grinder to open out the standard runners. I'm not sure I managed to get them out to 39mm cause I was afraid of cutting through. It was time consuming but definitely cheaper than making new ones.
The ones I made for the 24v are HPC coated not chromed but if I did it again I'd do the whole lot in stainless and polish it because it would probably be cheaper than HPC.

brook166 · Post by **brook166** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:10 pm

Nice work Daniel,

Is that a 24V from a GTV6/166?

If it is i'm keen to find out the issues with fitting?

I decided to go the 164 3.0 route as I found a 116 car already fitted with one and it was cheap.

I plan on transplanting the 3.0 into my original 116 as it has some nice mods (suspension, gearbox).

When I took of the 2.5 runners from the 3.0 there is evidence of some port matching to 35mm. about 180 degrees of the port was machined as a tapter about 10mm into the inlet. I guess without this machining the inlet would have been 30mm in diameter.

I assume this was done at factory for the 164 3.0.

Cheers

George

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:27 pm

George,
My engine is a '95 164 24v. Fitting issues are similar to any other 164 --> 116 conversion.
I can't remember what the 12v runner/injector manifold/port dimensions on the 164 12v we fitted to Dad's car were like. I didn't take much notice because we left that all standard and relocated the throttle on the 164 plenum to fit it all under the 2.0 bonnet

patzo_3l · Post by **patzo_3l** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:12 am

i assure u they can be bought out to 39mm. like i said u must be very good with the tools though or u will ruin them. done the job many times and had them on cars for a while with no problems. not to say the least it is a bastard of a job and i dont even bother doin all 6 in one shot as i would have a nervous breakdown if i did. i do 1 or 2 then walk off and do something else then go back and do another later.

Sporttunergtv6 · Post by **Sporttunergtv6** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:38 pm

does anyone know if the lancia kappa v6 24v is more similar to the 166 or the 164?
thanks,
v

tectoteam · Post by **tectoteam** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:06 pm

Sporttunergtv6 wrote:does anyone know if the lancia kappa v6 24v is more similar to the 166 or the 164?
thanks,
v

i got one in my gtv6.

its all the same...with the same differences,...

thers is a first version (engine n° 838B000), and after the second we all know.
the biggest difference is the passenger side head and the block, there is a difference around here close to the old spark distributor aera.
in first version there is a cover with oil vapour hose at the place of distributor.
in latest version they erase it completely.

it make, different block, and different destre(DX, rigth) head and gasket.

also, i saw a day some v6 that had the oil pump chain driven...in a oem case. dont remenber exactly. but this stil exist.

all this wil change nothing...it will fit in a gtv6.
for fitting some minor mods, and parts keeped from the 2.5L oem gtv6 motor, a few of custom: exhaut, intake in regard of budget.

Sporttunergtv6 · Post by **Sporttunergtv6** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:38 pm

that is nice to know...
thanks,
v

Sporttunergtv6 · Post by **Sporttunergtv6** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:11 pm

is the ecu for the 24 v 3.0 on the 164 bosch motronic sn: 0261200117?
v

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:47 pm

I'll try to remember to check tonight

Sporttunergtv6 · Post by **Sporttunergtv6** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:50 pm

thanks daniel,
.. or is it 261 200 663