cchan,
JJ has delivered a good product. I have to assume this, as he has done so for numerous others. Besides teething problems, what he has sold to others seems to perform. I have some personal knowledge of this.
Now, it seems that you are at an impasse: you can't make GoTech work, and neither can your mechanic. Which begs the question: why you haven't paid JJ to come by and set the thing up for you?
DaveH
82 GTV6 Restoration
Hello Everyone,
I know that my project is stalled right now. All I can say is that I am confident that we can figure out the last part.
JJ, I really don't want to get into a debate with your services to my company on a public forum. You have Gary's Number and our position is set with your company. However, having said that, Thank you for your additional posts.
I know that my project is stalled right now. All I can say is that I am confident that we can figure out the last part.
JJ, I really don't want to get into a debate with your services to my company on a public forum. You have Gary's Number and our position is set with your company. However, having said that, Thank you for your additional posts.
cchan,
It sounds like you've gotten some good advice from members on both boards. Your comment on thinking the car basically stock is funny when you look at what's been done to it regarding suspension and engine mods. I mean come on
Never mind the "consultant" crap - you owned this car a long time I thought? Who'd been your regular mechanic? Even if this thing was trouble free and running down the street a few months back, to get to the end of a build and then be wondering about good local mechanics to maintain a car with an aftermarket FI system on it and it's an Alfa to boot?
I mean it's an Alfa, not a Ferrari, or Dodge or Chevy much less a BMW. A car brand that hasn't been sold hear in years. Even when Alfa was selling cars here 10+ years ago there were maybe 6 dealers in the whole Bay Area, and maybe 2 good private Alfa shops per county with San Jose maybe having 4? Now we're talking no dealers, and a handful of good mechanics in the whole Bay Area, and some of the best ones are near retirement ... gulp!
Anyway, I'm sure you'll get this sorted, it's an impressive car to say the least, and it's been a great thread.
If you do need a great mechanic I recommend Lyn of Karden Automotive in Walnut Creek. He once owned an Alfa-Lotus dealership, and has been working on these cars forever, he knows the gtv6 12v and 24v in the dark, and is great to deal with but ... I don't believe he deals with aftermarket injection systems. Also, Rich Ott in Vallejo of Alfetta Motors, but again I am not so sure on the FI system.
GV
It sounds like you've gotten some good advice from members on both boards. Your comment on thinking the car basically stock is funny when you look at what's been done to it regarding suspension and engine mods. I mean come on
Never mind the "consultant" crap - you owned this car a long time I thought? Who'd been your regular mechanic? Even if this thing was trouble free and running down the street a few months back, to get to the end of a build and then be wondering about good local mechanics to maintain a car with an aftermarket FI system on it and it's an Alfa to boot?
I mean it's an Alfa, not a Ferrari, or Dodge or Chevy much less a BMW. A car brand that hasn't been sold hear in years. Even when Alfa was selling cars here 10+ years ago there were maybe 6 dealers in the whole Bay Area, and maybe 2 good private Alfa shops per county with San Jose maybe having 4? Now we're talking no dealers, and a handful of good mechanics in the whole Bay Area, and some of the best ones are near retirement ... gulp!
Anyway, I'm sure you'll get this sorted, it's an impressive car to say the least, and it's been a great thread.
If you do need a great mechanic I recommend Lyn of Karden Automotive in Walnut Creek. He once owned an Alfa-Lotus dealership, and has been working on these cars forever, he knows the gtv6 12v and 24v in the dark, and is great to deal with but ... I don't believe he deals with aftermarket injection systems. Also, Rich Ott in Vallejo of Alfetta Motors, but again I am not so sure on the FI system.
GV
20-Years-3-Motors-Later
Cchan. Its sounds like you need to persevere with the Gotech as it is a great system as I see proof of the one Barry set up on Fernandos car which would probably pass any smog test and even if it was to rich you could use the manual fuel trim. Not only Fernando’s car runs brilliantly but there was a tt gtv6 at our show on Sunday that runs the same system and really hauls ass and many others here. Im not trying to market anyone as I have haltecs on my GTV’s(probably cost 4 times gotech) and they are still not perfect as you need to spend time and effort to really get them perfect which we have not done yet. So bottom line is what you put in you will get out.
With regards to the standard Bosch system they are great when new but ten years down the line(Got three 164’s) they tend to become expensive as I have worn out two AFM’s , popped ten coils, blown six ignitors, one ecu, two air idle actuators between the three cars. So if you have acces to all these parts new and a unichip system go for it but its painfull. Make sure you only use the factory spec ngk plugs( to save coils), don’t wash engine unless you remove each coil and dry out properly to remove any arcing.
As im doing another engine transplant and another Haltec is out of my budget at the moment I will go with Gotech shortly. I have every confidence in there product.
By the way we(as the mechanic at one of our private dealers, I was watching) once set the cams on my 24v 164 with a picture from a 164 from overseas before we knew about the marks and had acces to cam blocks. The car went pretty darn well for a few years apart from faulty ignitors which caused the car to backfire and jump teeth on the back bank regulary).
Those harness you have are custom for the GTV’s and would not follow any diagrams.
Keep trying.
With regards to the standard Bosch system they are great when new but ten years down the line(Got three 164’s) they tend to become expensive as I have worn out two AFM’s , popped ten coils, blown six ignitors, one ecu, two air idle actuators between the three cars. So if you have acces to all these parts new and a unichip system go for it but its painfull. Make sure you only use the factory spec ngk plugs( to save coils), don’t wash engine unless you remove each coil and dry out properly to remove any arcing.
As im doing another engine transplant and another Haltec is out of my budget at the moment I will go with Gotech shortly. I have every confidence in there product.
By the way we(as the mechanic at one of our private dealers, I was watching) once set the cams on my 24v 164 with a picture from a 164 from overseas before we knew about the marks and had acces to cam blocks. The car went pretty darn well for a few years apart from faulty ignitors which caused the car to backfire and jump teeth on the back bank regulary).
Those harness you have are custom for the GTV’s and would not follow any diagrams.
Keep trying.
Very nice informative post Kev...Chuck,If you cant do it yourself,surround yourself with people that can..You will always be a happy man.kevin wrote:Cchan. Its sounds like you need to persevere with the Gotech as it is a great system as I see proof of the one Barry set up on Fernandos car which would probably pass any smog test and even if it was to rich you could use the manual fuel trim. Not only Fernando’s car runs brilliantly but there was a tt gtv6 at our show on Sunday that runs the same system and really hauls ass and many others here. Im not trying to market anyone as I have haltecs on my GTV’s(probably cost 4 times gotech) and they are still not perfect as you need to spend time and effort to really get them perfect which we have not done yet. So bottom line is what you put in you will get out.
With regards to the standard Bosch system they are great when new but ten years down the line(Got three 164’s) they tend to become expensive as I have worn out two AFM’s , popped ten coils, blown six ignitors, one ecu, two air idle actuators between the three cars. So if you have acces to all these parts new and a unichip system go for it but its painfull. Make sure you only use the factory spec ngk plugs( to save coils), don’t wash engine unless you remove each coil and dry out properly to remove any arcing.
As im doing another engine transplant and another Haltec is out of my budget at the moment I will go with Gotech shortly. I have every confidence in there product.
By the way we(as the mechanic at one of our private dealers, I was watching) once set the cams on my 24v 164 with a picture from a 164 from overseas before we knew about the marks and had acces to cam blocks. The car went pretty darn well for a few years apart from faulty ignitors which caused the car to backfire and jump teeth on the back bank regulary).
Those harness you have are custom for the GTV’s and would not follow any diagrams.
Keep trying.
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
Not to be a party buster, but passing CA smog (and probably other smog) is a bit more complicated than simply leaning it out. Overly lean and your nox goes too high and you fail. Also, engine management doesn't solve all your problems. Cam design could pose a problem, but given that cchan has standard 24v cams and gta 24v cams that should not be an issue. To thread the neddle with CA smog you really need to ally yourself with a dyno shop and engine tuner or someone with a full gas analyzer and the ability to put the engine under load while measuring (since CA smog, in most places, are done at various load points). Regardless, you should be able to pass CA emissions testing with a properly tuned GoTech system.
Jes
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
On the bright side, all we need to pass is 1980's emissions standards. I had a failing cat in my Verde one year ago and I managed to squeak by. No way that would have happened if our 95 LS had a marginal cat.
And by the way, do whatever you can to not have a peace officer inspect your engine bay. If your entire install is OEM looking but you have a non CARB air cleaner, off to the state referee you go. This happened to me once, but luckily, my car WAS stock. Different engine management, custom intake runners, headers, or w/e you guys are running, that would all have to come out - and the stock stuff put back in. What a gamble
And by the way, do whatever you can to not have a peace officer inspect your engine bay. If your entire install is OEM looking but you have a non CARB air cleaner, off to the state referee you go. This happened to me once, but luckily, my car WAS stock. Different engine management, custom intake runners, headers, or w/e you guys are running, that would all have to come out - and the stock stuff put back in. What a gamble
BMW's are the ultimate driving machine!
I'm kidding -- please don't ban me.
I'm kidding -- please don't ban me.
cchan. I finally gave up trying to sort out both my haltecs on the 3.2(car runs but keeps blowing fuses under load) and the 3.7(car battles to run- splutters. farts etc). Both these systems ran perfectly before I pulled the engines out to do major servicings. So had to start at the beginning checking fuel pressure, clean injectors, crank sensors , bougie cords etc.
Any way towed the car to Barrys house and after a while the car was running smoothly. I forgot to tell Barry that i put the NGK type R spark plugs in which are only supposed to be used for the 24v motors which have the coils on top of the plugs(as in standard 164's). As I am using the 155 coilpack this was a total disaster(low resistance plug and lead). Lucky no damage or blown computers. Thanks again B for putting smiles back on our faces.
Any way towed the car to Barrys house and after a while the car was running smoothly. I forgot to tell Barry that i put the NGK type R spark plugs in which are only supposed to be used for the 24v motors which have the coils on top of the plugs(as in standard 164's). As I am using the 155 coilpack this was a total disaster(low resistance plug and lead). Lucky no damage or blown computers. Thanks again B for putting smiles back on our faces.
Glad we found it Kev..
To the uninitiated...These plugs had an impedance of 4.7Kohm..added to that the Impedance of the plug wires we had a total of 7Kohm`s..enough to kill a spark dead in its tracks..
Rule of thumb,use resistor wires with non resistor plugs and vice versa only..
It will drive you nuts trying to figure the problem.
Was chatting to Kev last night..A mechanic at Dawies place did a service on a 4cyl Merc engine..It would not run afterwards.
Thinking he had damaged valves somehow he removed the head and had it overhauled.It still did not run..The customer was getting naar(angry,wild,upset,put your own in here..)
He removed and overhauled the engine!!
Still no run..
I happened to be visiting Dawie the day Basil had the car at the shop..
Asked me to have a look.
Saw the double up of plug and wires problem and told him to fit non resistor plugs.
The motor fired straight up and ran like a clock..Poor Basil could not believe the solution to his nightmare was as simple as that.
Besides that he had forked out over R8000.00 in an engine overhaul!!
To the uninitiated...These plugs had an impedance of 4.7Kohm..added to that the Impedance of the plug wires we had a total of 7Kohm`s..enough to kill a spark dead in its tracks..
Rule of thumb,use resistor wires with non resistor plugs and vice versa only..
It will drive you nuts trying to figure the problem.
Was chatting to Kev last night..A mechanic at Dawies place did a service on a 4cyl Merc engine..It would not run afterwards.
Thinking he had damaged valves somehow he removed the head and had it overhauled.It still did not run..The customer was getting naar(angry,wild,upset,put your own in here..)
He removed and overhauled the engine!!
Still no run..
I happened to be visiting Dawie the day Basil had the car at the shop..
Asked me to have a look.
Saw the double up of plug and wires problem and told him to fit non resistor plugs.
The motor fired straight up and ran like a clock..Poor Basil could not believe the solution to his nightmare was as simple as that.
Besides that he had forked out over R8000.00 in an engine overhaul!!
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
82 GTV6 Restore
Hello Everyone,
Back from LA and spoke with Phil. Good news, Alfa is alot better now after having been adjusted for many hours. I had a long conversation on the Gotech system, it appears that the Gotech has 32 fuel cells that you adjust over alot of RPM's. Seems like there is alot of adjustments and fine tuning. So many different load factors to consider. Fan turns on, fuel pressure, temp of engine, etc. Guess I will have alot to learn if I will be able to tune a car. What ever happened to Points and condensors?, timing gun, etc??
I was told the Alfa runs well now and we are working towards passing smog. Hopefully this goal will be completed by this Friday and I will have a map that is close to perfect. We will then tow the Alfa to the warehouse for the final detailing of the body, interior, etc. I will then take some good pictures, have the Alfa Registered, and then do the dyno tune for power.
The Good news is that I will post my Gotech Map that will save the next forum member alot of frustration assuming they set up a motor like mine. We were told that some maps from the Gotech website were tried but Jess map was the best starting point since the motor ran the best. Of course Jes was correct that he played with it alot to get his running to his satisfaction.
Almost there
Back from LA and spoke with Phil. Good news, Alfa is alot better now after having been adjusted for many hours. I had a long conversation on the Gotech system, it appears that the Gotech has 32 fuel cells that you adjust over alot of RPM's. Seems like there is alot of adjustments and fine tuning. So many different load factors to consider. Fan turns on, fuel pressure, temp of engine, etc. Guess I will have alot to learn if I will be able to tune a car. What ever happened to Points and condensors?, timing gun, etc??
I was told the Alfa runs well now and we are working towards passing smog. Hopefully this goal will be completed by this Friday and I will have a map that is close to perfect. We will then tow the Alfa to the warehouse for the final detailing of the body, interior, etc. I will then take some good pictures, have the Alfa Registered, and then do the dyno tune for power.
The Good news is that I will post my Gotech Map that will save the next forum member alot of frustration assuming they set up a motor like mine. We were told that some maps from the Gotech website were tried but Jess map was the best starting point since the motor ran the best. Of course Jes was correct that he played with it alot to get his running to his satisfaction.
Almost there
Hi Chuck!
Please send me the 'final' map via email (michael@alfagtv6.com) - I'll post it here.
We have identical engines so your effort will save me lots of frustration.
Cheers,
Please send me the 'final' map via email (michael@alfagtv6.com) - I'll post it here.
We have identical engines so your effort will save me lots of frustration.
Cheers,
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
-
junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
Yes, correct - 32 load-cells per 333/500 rpm-range - I think I mentioned that a time or two. So it wasn't the scratched label on the "damaged" GoTech after all
Glad to hear that.
Michael, there is one basic difference between your motor and Chuck's - yours was built from scratch back in SA with mild porting and about 10.7:1 compression - just like Jes' 3.2 (over Chuck's standard ports and standard 10.0:1 compression...) Jes has the lighter GTA lifters.
All of you guys run the same cams - inlet and exhaust - the same headers, the same plugs, the same ECUs (and versions), the same coils, the same plug wires, the same cam timing etc.
Despite the difference in displacement, your motor is likely more akin to Jes' 3.2 than to Chuck's 3.0 due to the higher compression and ports - minus some fuel across the range. You may benefit more from some file-sharing with the last known good maps on Bernard's and Brian's 3.0s down in Australia - identical to yours...
Any way, you have a great deal more tuning experience from setting up your own MS on the 12 valve - you won't have any problems. Since you're here locally, call me any time and I can help out! I'll likely be there come the time any way - just ask - we'll just head over to Alex at Carb Con and get it done fast.
Glad to hear that.
Michael, there is one basic difference between your motor and Chuck's - yours was built from scratch back in SA with mild porting and about 10.7:1 compression - just like Jes' 3.2 (over Chuck's standard ports and standard 10.0:1 compression...) Jes has the lighter GTA lifters.
All of you guys run the same cams - inlet and exhaust - the same headers, the same plugs, the same ECUs (and versions), the same coils, the same plug wires, the same cam timing etc.
Despite the difference in displacement, your motor is likely more akin to Jes' 3.2 than to Chuck's 3.0 due to the higher compression and ports - minus some fuel across the range. You may benefit more from some file-sharing with the last known good maps on Bernard's and Brian's 3.0s down in Australia - identical to yours...
Any way, you have a great deal more tuning experience from setting up your own MS on the 12 valve - you won't have any problems. Since you're here locally, call me any time and I can help out! I'll likely be there come the time any way - just ask - we'll just head over to Alex at Carb Con and get it done fast.
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...