Is it best to hold out for a late model GTV6? This file should help you make up your mind.

This file was sent to when I was searching for my car. It is very usefull in understanding what the differences between the models are, and what changes Alfa made to the car between 1981 and 1986.

From: alexa014%Athena@ccmail.duke.edu
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 21:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: GTV-6 specifics...

          Dennis-
          Sure liked your follow up on enunciating the differences in
          the GTV-6 model line, just a couple more observations...

          The gear ratio question is one that Don Sanders and I
          researched thoroughly in our quest for optimum ratios for
          Don's SCCA race car. Again, unfortunately, I am at home
          (actually alexa's home) so I don't have the notebook in
          front of me but the 1981 model year had intermediate ratios
          slightly different from 1984, 85 and 86 cars, even though
          they all shared the 4.10 rear axle ratio, fifth gear being
          slightly shorter as well in the '81 model. The '82 and '83
          cars of course had the 3.42 rear axle ratio, of which I've
          heard disparaging remarks about in the club press, but I
          actually prefer (takes the emphasis away from that horrid
          shift likage, don't have to use it as much). In the popular
          press, there was no change in published 0-60 times with the
          axle change (except for sample differences) and I've won a
          bunch of time trials with my Balocco with a 3.42 in it, but
          the tactile wins out and it DOES feel quicker with the 4.10.

          There seem to be more cars later in the run with sunroofs,
          but I've seen every year (except '81) with and without them.
          I've seen '81 models with a Sprint Veloce-like velour and an
          '84 with a houndstooth black and brown check velour, some
          '85 and '86 models with black with thin white stripe velour.
          The most infamous combination early on was the silver
          exterior with blue leather in '82-'83. I've seen anthracite
          and red in '81's, silver only (except for the red Balocco
          SE) in '82, silver only in '83, anthracite, red, silver, a
          beautiful red brown (walnut)metallic and a separate
          brownish-grey metallic (silver for the Maratona) in '84,
          red, black, white and silver in '85 (silver for the Grand
          Prix), Champagne, red, navy blue and black in '86. 
	    Are there more?

          The "dual circuit" A/C was known as "Tropic-Air" and was
          installed on some '84 and almost all '85 and '86 models at
          the port or by the dealer. Behr of America in Texas built
          the kit and turned the fresh air vents on either side of the
          dash into additional A/C outlets. Works pretty well, but my
          favorite is to replace the York style compressor with the
          Sankyo rotary off of a wrecked Milano (they did this on the
          '86 from the factory). Made my Balocco feel like a
          "Tropic-Air" car...Ahhh!

          The shift linkage was changed to the Milano style
          "pantograph" arrangement at around chassis number 6052, or
          something like that. It corresponds to the middle of the
          1985 model year. When they made that change, they also made
          the center tunnel crossmember completely removeable, like
          the Milano, which makes R&Ring the driveshaft a snap! This
          also changes the rear anchoring of the torsion bars, too.

          The Balocco was an '82 cosmetic upgrade that offered a red

          exterior, red carpets, black leather upholstery with black
          and thin lined red piping on the seats, black wheel centers,
          black vinyl applique on the sides of the car, rear
          quadrifoglios in green with special lettering, a sunroof and
          air conditioning and a cheezy plastic plaque on the glovebox
          door signifying what number out of 350 total made yours
          was...My local dealer sold seven of them and I've owned two,
          big deal...first Alfa I ever worked on, warranty or
          otherwise...
          The Maratona was an '84 model which was silver with side
          skirts and fender flares, Speedline alloys and a trick
          smoked grey plenum cover on the hood so you could see the
          motor moving around under the torque load. Still, just a

          cosmetic package. The Grand Prix was an '85 model with some
          vinyl graphics and a rear window louver package...

          Pays your money and take your choice...



                                                 Peter Krause
                                                -Il Dottore

------------------------------



From verrilli@VNET.IBM.COM Tue Jan 10 06:47:16 1995
Subject: GTV6 variations
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 08:47:12 -0500
From: "Colin Verrilli" 

Don,
Here's some old posts I dug up. I could swear I did one too, but I can't
find it.


-------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 14:30:18 -0400
>From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Balocco (was: Ballocco)



>       what is the difference between a GTV Ballocco SE and a standard GTV6?

>I believe it differed in trim, and had no mechanical difference with the
>standard GTV6 of that model year.  The Balocco had red carpets, and a
>badge on the glove compartment door stating what number it was.
>Externally the car came in (only) red, and had a back stripe beginning
>from the nose and expanding gradually to the posterior, ending with a
>"Balocco S.E." sticker on the plastic "breather" panel.

There is no _mechanical_ difference.  The Balocco was an all red car with
_black_ plastic trim pieces (std GTV6 were _grey_) for rockers, air dam,
gas cap, cabin exhaust vents.  They came with red carpets and a black
leather interior.  The piping on the seats was black with a red candy
stripe.  They came with a _manual_ sunroof, a green quadrofoglio on the
cabin exhaust vents, and a dash plaque ("Balocco Special Edition, Limited
Series, No ___/350").  They also had a black leather wheel, and a _plastic_
shift knob (personally, I'll take the wood wheel and wood shift knob
anyday).  The Campy wheels were anodized black (std was silver), all five
of them.  Oh, it was not possible to get these without air (a `delete'
option was available in std GTV6s, though I only know of one like this).

There was a GTV4 model that was nearly identical in every detail sold in
Europe called the Grand Prix, though these had an additional black lower
body between the wheel wells.

Two other `special' GTV6s were made, the Maratona (which came mostly in
silver with a dash plaque and facy boy-racer plastic body work; flares,
wheels, skirts, dams, spoilers, etc) and the Callaway (this was a _REAL_
fire breather, a stock GTV6 reworked with an intercooled twin turbo; 0-60
in 6.7 and 1-100 in 14 flat, 1/4 mile in 14@100).

Footnote: At the _very end_ of the GTV6, there were a (very) few that got
the 3.0 engine of the Verde Milano/75.  None made it to the USA (though
this conversion is becoming more common) and I don't know if they got the
bigger valves/heads of the 3.0 as well...

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was a US-only version, similar in idea
>to the Niki Lauda Edition of the Spider, or the '84 reincarnation of the
>Maratona GTV6 (which had a plasticky bodykit that spoiled the car's line
>so)

Agreed on the Maratona (no bias here).  Balocco's are '82s, Maratonas are
'84s, and Callaways are '86s.  If you can find one of the GTV6/3.0s it will
probably be a '87, though when it comes to Italian hardware, who knows?


Al Bowers  ...Balocco No 321/350...

[Al Bowers, in re Balocco]:
> Two other `special' GTV6s were made, the Maratona (which came mostly in
> silver with a dash plaque and facy boy-racer plastic body work; flares,
> wheels, skirts, dams, spoilers, etc) and the Callaway (this was a _REAL_
> fire breather, a stock GTV6 reworked with an intercooled twin turbo; 0-60
> in 6.7 and 1-100 in 14 flat, 1/4 mile in 14@100).

Callaway GTV6s are serious collector's items now. The few that I've seen
for sale have usually been well cared for and have a hefty price tag...
from $15K up. But being Callaway-engineered, the installation is first
rate. It does away with the (to some) unsightly plastic insert in the
center of the hood and replaces it with a functional fresh air intake
scoop.

These cars were what got Reeves Callaway's now-thriving automotive
engineering business off the ground; I think a kit with all the parts
to convert your standard GTV6 is still available from them (or they'd
probably do the conversion if you showed up with cash in hand), but
I'll bet it's not cheap.

Dave Garrett
garrett@math.rice.edu



-------------------------

Subject: Re:  Alfa GTV6 question

>Hello all,
>
>About five years ago I was considering getting a used GTV6.  Problem is, I

Looks like were in the same boat.

>guess I'm stuck with an '81 or '82.  Why, you ask?  Well, I am dead-set on

Well, similar boat; I'm looking for an '85-'86

>Better still, could someone manage to convince me that the '83 and up cars
>are a better bet than an '81 or '82?  I believe there were minor changes to
>the instruments and ventilation controls, but were there any other changes
>besides the seats and some of the exterior trim pieces?  I might also
>consider a Balocco version (though these were red), and, I guess a black
>one would be okay, but anthracite is preferred above all else.  In terms of
>price, I would like to stay with low '80s cars.

The change to Recaro style seats and lower gears came in '84.  The '81
had the 4.10 final drive while the '82-'83 used the 3.something and
they went back to the 4.10 in '84.  The '85 is when they switched to a
different (higher output?) A/C and the "Isostatic" shift linkage (like
the Milano; not as rubbery).  The '81-'84 used the Campagnolo wheels
with a solid center and rectangular slots at the periphery.  The '85
used the Speedline "phone-dial" wheels with the funny non-standard
sized Michelin TRX tires.  The '86 used the solid slightly dished
center with the dagger shaped slots near the rim.  This rim is the
one used on early Milanos.  Somewhere between '82 and '84 they
switched to a different ignition system (I'm not sure about this last
point).


>So then, can I find a reasonably good '81-'85 GTV6 for *take a deep breath*
>US$3,000?  I know that these cars can be difficult to maintain, but I think

In California?  An '81-83 should be no problem at that price.  You
could get an '84 if you look hard enough.  Forget the '85-'86

>I'm prepared for the shock.  If there are any GTV6 owners out there I would
>greatly appreciate hearing from you--that is if you wouldn't mind answering
>some other dumb questions.  Any advice or comments on the car would be
>welcomed.  Further, can anyone recommend a service center in the
>San Francisco Bay Area, preferably in the East Bay?  Thanks to all.

Camissa Alfa?  I know nothing of them other than they sell used Alfas
they are in Burlingame and their number is 1-800-924-ALFA.

-Dennis
dlou@ucsd.edu

------------------------------

From: richard welty 
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 10:43:24 -0400
Subject:  Alfa GTV6 question


* Somewhere between '82 and '84 they
*switched to a different ignition system (I'm not sure about this last
*point).

they switched from an early Bosch L, with a separate Bosch electronic
ignition system, to a later Bosch L, with a better integrated Bosch
electronic ignition system, also switching to a heated 3 wire O2 sensor
at the same time.   i think that the years were 81-83 for the earlyset up, and 84-86 for the later one.

cheers,
  richard

note:  The ignition switch is significant if you want to do something
like adding the Jim Smith reprogrammed ECU.  With the later ignition,
Jim provides rev-dependent control of the ignition advance.  Otherwise
you have to advance the distributor and are stuck with an invariant
advance.  Don.
------------------------------

From: b_shorey@Chelmsford.Telebit.COM
Subject: RE: Alfa GTV6 question
Date: Thu,  8 Sep 94 13:32: 1 EDT

hello,

in addition to the seats and interior changes, the post 83 cars had a different
rear end.  i have an '82 Balocco with the stock rear end, which makes for
lousy track times but great highway cruising.

as someone mentioned,the brain boxes are different in the early ones.

the front sway bars in the early ones are different.  '81 - '83 (i think) use the same
type sway bars as an alfetta (but thicker), while the '84 and higher cars use the
same type sway bars as a milano.  i think the difference is in the linkage.  i believe
there is also a difference in the torsion bars, perhaps a different number of teeth?


as far as maintenance, i've owned my balocco for a couple of summers now and
it has been virtually trouble free (the previous owner went through the head gasket,
torsioner, etc problems).  anything you would buy, unless it has less than 30k miles,
most likely has the new style head gaskets and updates to the torsioner.

the ac in my balocco is pathetic, which i understand is common.  it's supposedly
better in the later ones.

replace your timing belts every 30k miles.

get one and have fun - i love mine.

bs


------------------------------

From: richard welty 
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 13:51:13 -0400
Subject: Alfa GTV6 question


* '81 - '83 (i think) use the same
*type sway bars as an alfetta (but thicker),

actually, the OE GTV-6 bar i got from brian is _smaller_ than the OE
bar in my 1976 Alfetta sedan.

* while the '84 and higher cars use the
*same type sway bars as a milano.
*i think the difference is in the linkage.

nope; all front bars mount up the same in these cars.  the GTV-6 rear
bars differ from Alfetta/Milano/75 rear bars; they attach to the end links
differently.  if you swap bars, you need to swap end links too.  there
is a Chevy Camaro sway bar end link which is interchangeable with
a GTV-6 end link, so you can purchase end links from the Energy Suspension
catalog and get poly urethane end link bushings for it that way.

*there is also a difference in the torsion bars, perhaps a different number
*of teeth?

the length of the torsion bars changed mid model run in the GTV-6; the
Milano/75 uses the same length bar as the late GTV-6.  the early GTV-6
bar is the same length as the Alfetta bar; i'm running the Shankle
Super sport GTV-6 torsion bars and rear springs in my Alfetta, and they
work quite well (although they're stiff enough to make driving it painful
on the street some times.)

*anything you would buy, unless it has less than 30k miles,
*most likely has the new style head gaskets and updates to the torsioner.

well, not necessarily.  we took the heads out of my wife's 1982
GTV-6 with 82,000 miles on it last summer, and the gaskets were
the (awful) original type.

cheers,
  richard

------------------------------

--
Colin Verrilli                   IBM Raleigh, NC

From dinsdale Fri Jan  6 10:25:31 1995
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 10:25:29 -0700
From: dinsdale (Don McDaniel)
To: italian-cars@cabot.balltown.cma.com
Subject: Mike's GTV6 search
Cc: dinsdale
Status: RO


Seems it may be time for a GTV6 model-year writeup for the FAQ.

As a general answer to the question, I would say you're better off with
an 84, 85 or 86 model.  This is because they were slightly improved over
the earlier models in little details, because they were slightly more
resistant to rust and they will generally have lower mileage.

selected notes on chronology

1981 introduced

1982 and 1983  had 25% higher final drive ratio (went back in 84)
while the taller drive makes for nice high-speed cruising, the cars
suffered noticeably in acceleration.

84 or 85, introduced Recaro-style seats, made leather an option and
added a second AC circuit.  The old AC was pretty lame.
(before 84 all seats were leather)

85  had stupid metric Speedline wheels.  Nothing wrong with the wheels
except that you must run Michelin TRX tires; seriously outdated rubber.

86 last year.  had CHMSL that was glued to the top of the rear window.
it WILL fall off.

Over the production run, there was no reported change in the engine
output rating.  Limited slip diff (later offered in the Milano) was
never incorporated.

There were small cosmetic changes every year, often previewed the year
before in that year's special edition (Balloco in '82, Maratona in '84
for example).  These included things like blacked out pillars and
bumpers, wheel color and lower body panel gravel strips.  The basis
sillohoutte (sp?) remained fixed throughout.

What you will pay depends a lot on condition and market where you're
looking.  I would expect a good example to fetch $4500 to $5500.  For
this money the car whould be really clean and have documentation of
some upgrades (at least new-stype head gaskets and maybe new mechanical
belt tensioner).  A car would have to be really special to fetch more
(like mine :-)).

Be aware that a GTV6 can cost you a lot of money to make right if it
hasn't been lovingly cared for.  However, they are so undervalued, that
from a performance standpoint, it may be well worth it.  You'll wind up
with more money in the car than you could sell for, but more car than
you could get for the same money in (for example) a P-car.  You HAVE to
get a car with a good bottom end.  While head work is no big deal, a
complete engine rebuild is hard to justify financially unless somebody
GIVES you the car.

Happy hunting.

Don McDaniel
.


From welty@balltown.cma.com Sun Jan  8 10:35:04 1995
Subject: Re: Mike's GTV6 search


*84 or 85, introduced Recaro-style seats, made leather an option and
*added a second AC circuit.  The old AC was pretty lame.

i think we need to make sure that the phrase "leather an option" is
understood correctly.  early cars only came with leather; it was not
an option.  at least, my wife's 82 has the traditional blue leather
interior that goes with the silver paint.

*85  had stupid metric Speedline wheels.  Nothing wrong with the wheels
*except that you must run Michelin TRX tires; seriously outdated rubber.

*86 last year.  had CHMSL that was glued to the top of the rear window.
*it WILL fall off.

in 1984, the length of the torsion bars was changed to be the
same as that which would appear on the 75/Milano; in this period
the gear linkage was also changed, noticeably improving the quality of
the shifter.  sometime over the next several years they also switched
to Milano/75 style brake pads with the pad wear sensor wires built
in, and the late transmission is changed somewhat.

richard


From dlou@ece.UCSD.EDU Thu Feb 16 11:04:10 1995
Subject: Re:  '81 vs. '84 GTV6

>
>I had volunteered to assemble a FAQ on the differences between GTV6 models
>but got very little response; not enough info yet to merit the trouble.
>Among the things I'd like to add is production figures for the various model
>years.  Anybody got that?  Some brochures might help too.  I have an '83
>brochure.
>
>As for the specific questions....
>
>The '84 was the only model with the dark lower body paint; the "two-tone"
>paint job.  I question the "stainless steel" bumper insert claim.  As far
>as I'm aware, the earlier cars had brushed metal bumper body with plastic and
>rubber caps.  Later cars had the bumper body painted a matte black.  The
>transition was either in '84 or '85.  If your car doesn't have the black
>bumper, then the transition was in '85.
>

I think I know where I can pry a '85 brochure from.  I think I can
send you a color photocopy of it or a scan if you have enough disk.

I know of several changes to the GTV6 over the lifespan, but I can't
quite put my finger on the dates.  Off the top of my head:

* dash lights and switches changes
     - the '86 has different window switches than the '81-'85
     - the '83 I test drove had a exhaust temp light while my '85 doesn't

* switched to Bosch digital ignition around '84-'85

* switched to dual circuit "Tropic-Air" A/C in '85

* gear set/final drive changes sometime around '82, '84 and '86

* Campy wheels '81-'84, Speedline metrics '85 and Milano Plat style '86

* two tone paint but you already know about that

* slab seats in '81-83, recaro halo style in '84-86, cloth an option in '85-86

* sunroof an option in '85-86

* wiring system change around '84-85

*  1 wire O2 sensor in '81-84, 3 wire '85-86

* shorter torsion bars sometime around '85

* some cars have a fiberglass insert between the tail lights while others don't

I'm not sure about this last point.  I'm going to ask the list for more
info on it.

-Dennis

From dlou@ece.UCSD.EDU Fri Feb 17 10:05:55 1995
Subject: Re:  GTV6 differences


Was it you that was compiling a list of changes between '81-'86 for
a GTV6 FAQ?  Three more I just noticed on my way to work stopping
at a languishing '81 at a local dealer:

* switch from wood steering wheel rim and shifter to leather and
  plastic in either '84 or '85

* lighted green dash switch removed around '84 or '85 (next to window 
   lift switches)

* 85mph speedo replaced with 140mph in '84 or '85

I think the size of the badge on the rear deck may have changed as
well but I'm not sure.

-Dennis

From dlou@ece.UCSD.EDU Fri Feb 17 11:50:46 1995
Subject: Yet another GTV6 difference


The pre-'85s have a parcel shelf below the glove box.  Presumably
this space is taken up by the 2nd circuit of the "Tropic-Air" A/C
system

-Dennis

From dlou@ece.UCSD.EDU Fri Feb 17 13:40:04 1995
Subject: Re:  GTV6 differences

>Thanks for the notes on feature changes.  Do you know what that lighted
>green dash switch was?  I don't even remember having one on my '83.

You know, I have no idea.

Another thing I noticed was the rear badge (the one on the rear of the
hatch lip).  On the '81 it says "Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5" while my '85
just says "GTV6 2.5".  I think I remember the "Alfa Romeo" being on a
Martona I saw in a shopping mall lot.  The Martonas were '84, right?

The '81 also had a smaller coat of arms style round badge on top of
the rear hatch, but I'm not sure if it was original on that car.

-Dennis