Dear Anyone,
My name is Mark and I own a 1981 GTV6. I want to know the least expensive ways to add horsepower to my car. I think I am going to buy a K&N air filter within the next month or so. Is there anything else that will add horsepower to my car? Thanks for anyvbody's help!
Mark

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

Least expensive? If you add a K&N you will get no more than 1-2 bhp. Best thing to do is get the K&N flat panel filter to fit the airbox. Then cut a bigger hole to the airbox. Route some tubing for cold air into the hole in the airbox.

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

I'd say go with a head job with performance camshafts-not expensive but very effective for the money

By PAUL GRANT on Unrecorded Date:

SO LETS SAY YOU GO WITH S CAMS(MORE STREETABLE THAN AUTO DELTA),PANDORAS BOX,SPERRY STAGE 4 HEADS,MAGNACORE WIRES,SOME KIND OF PERFORMANCE IGNITION,A K AND N FILTER ON A 2.5(YOU CANT DO STAGE 4 ON A 3.0),WHAT KIND OF HORSEPOWER ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?PAUL

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

Well from my friend's recent mods on his GTV6 3.0:
JE Pistons 11:1 CR
AR Ricambi Cams (dunno which model)
Sperry intake runners and plenum
Stage 1 heads (only radius cut seats)
Shankle headers
Bosch Motronic EFI from a 164S (with 164S AFM)
No cat (1 Flowmaster muffler only)
200 bhp at the wheels at 6500 rpm.
177 lb/ft torque at the wheels at 3800 rpm.
Dynojet figures.

By PAUL GRANT on Unrecorded Date:

ANONYMOUS-SO A ROUGH GUESS WITH YOUR FRIENDS MODS ON A 2.5 WOULD BRING SAY 175 HP?PAUL

By Naoki on Unrecorded Date:

Hi,
I have a quesiton about valve/head job by sperry and others that offer similar services.
Obviously, this will increase power. But how good (or bad) is the engine feel; sound,
reving , response, drivavility,etc.? I like the feel of original 2.5 set up, but would like
to have this job done if the feel becomes better. I am not so much interested in the
power itself.
Tha

By PAUL GRANT on Unrecorded Date:

THE IMPORTANT THING TO ME IS GOOD DRIVABILITY WITHA NICE INCREASE IN PULLING POWER AND THE ABILITY TO REV TO 7000 RPM SAFELY.PAUL

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

Paul Ive got Pandora's Box, Bigger airflow meter, and Zat's fast cats (dont even plan on using the fast cats on a lowered car), and I am quite sure my 85 has 175-180 hp. It has far better drivability than it did when it was stock and is about .7 secs. faster to 60mph. All these mods are pretty easy to do and have no negative effects except loosing 1 inch of ground clearance with the fast cats.

By PAUL GRANT on Unrecorded Date:

SO ANONYMOUS-CAN YOU GIVE ME A BALL PARK FIGURE OF WHAT IT COST YOU?PAUL

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

I took a pair of 'Fast Cats' by Zat off a car and the only thing I would believe is they cost you power. Their workmanship was poor at best and the ball end that mates to the exhaust manifold had a hole 50% less than the size of the pipe. I doubt the O2 sensor mounted in 'crossover pipe' will ever work properly. The power gains are nothing more that BS. I would take it off and throw it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By PAUL GRANT on Unrecorded Date:

I'VE HEARD ALSO THAT BAD THINGS ABOUT 'FAST CATS'.WHAT I MEAN IS WHAT WOULD IT COST IN DOLLARS TO PUT SOME OF THESE PERFORMANCE GOODIES ON MY CAR EG-PANDORAS BOX,AIRFLOW METER,S CAMS,OVERSIZE VALVES.PAUL

By Zamani on Unrecorded Date:

S-cams : $600 (also should install new cam buckets)
Oversized valves: 10-20% more than stock valve prices
Pandora's Box: $300+
AFM: $100 from a used BMW junkyard
Cat: $320 from AR Ricambi (better than Zet's Slow Cats)
K&N flat panel filter: $45

Actually for the cat, you way want to ask a shop to custom build a system for you. Use the stock down pipes and cut them off while they are still 2 seperate pipes and rounded. Then have them weld on a 2 in 2 out cat (or 2 in 1 out if you decide to abondon the center muffler). If you run a cat, the center muffler is nothing more than a ballast. Get rid of it. Put on a stebro rear box. Make sure they don't weld everything up, use the factory slip joints or flanges.

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

I have used "fast cats" and will say they do provide power gains. The primary problem with them is ground clearance. The O2 sensor in the crossover pipe works fine because plenty of exahust passes through the crossover. Many performance V6s and V8s use crossover pipes and they work well because exahust does go through them. Plus we are talking about power here and the O2 sensor has no input to the ECU at full throttle anyway.(im not saying the O2 sensor isnt important though, just not important for power) I dont think they do much for peak HP. however they definatly boost torque below 3500rpm and power above 6000rpm. If you can afford the ground clearance (which means you are sacrificing cornering for drag racing) they are good, otherwise dont use them. My personal feeling are Alfas are not dragracing cars, lower your Alfa and beat em in the corners!

By EDDIE on Unrecorded Date:

I HAVE A 82 GTV6 2.5 , WITH BMW ATM A K&N CONE, PANDORA BOX, AND NO CAT. HOW MANY HORSES DO YOU THINK I HAVE WITH THIS MODIFICATION, ALSO HOW I CAN GET MORE, BīCOS THOSE ACURAS ARE GETTING FASTER AND FASTER

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

more compression, cams, and headwork, more displacement would be good too.

By Victor Popich on Unrecorded Date:

Will ceramic coating on the exhaust manifolds do anything to increase power? Manufacturer doing this type of work claims 20% power increase!!!
From a scientific point of view, it must increase power but 20% sounds a bit much. Anybody had this done yet?

By GerryLehmann on Unrecorded Date:

I've had the manifolds on my 3 Liter coated by a company called Jet-Hot. It is a ceramic /metallic coating but there were no claims of the magnitude you are describing. Maintaining heat in the exhaust will allow it to flow a bit better because it is less dense and there is less mass to it, but I would bet the increase to be barely measurable. The more significant benefit is that it reduces heat under the hood and makes it a bit easier to work on a hot engine. Obviously it cleans up the looks under the hood as well if one is into that sort of thing.

By Jorge Mazlumian (Jorge) on Unrecorded Date:

Hmm!, Gerry, you caught my attention. Are the 3L manifolds stock?, Or are they aftermarket headers?
I hope I can see your car if you are going to willows. My engine compartment gets so hot on traffic, its a joke! Suppose the benefit is greater for the track. But I already cracked 2 right side manifolds in my Milano. Jet hotting every time may be expensive for me.
Jorge

By Zamani on Unrecorded Date:

Hmmm... it's now 10 pm, Jess, my bro and I are sitting in front of the TV watching '94 BTCC and heat wrapping the SZ exhaust manifold for my bro's 75 3.0. 8-)

By GerryLehmann on Unrecorded Date:

Jorge, the manifolds that I'm running on my 3 liter engine are actually from a 2.5, I had a hard time finding 3 liter manifolds when I built the engine so I thought I'd upgrade the set that I had from a 2.5. They were extrude honed to open them up a bit and to smooth out the insides and then jet-hoted inside and out. I'm surprised to hear that you've cracked two manifolds, could your exhaust system be putting some unusual strain on them? I won't be at Willow next week, but I would guess there will be a fair turnout by the number of tech inspections I have scheduled this weekend.

By Jorge Mazlumian (Jorge) on Unrecorded Date:

Gerry
the first cracked manifold I believe was there when I bought the car 2+ years ago. Then I had to replace it when my starter needed replacement, (obviously the right one) and all I could find at the time was a (used) 2.5 as well. Recently it cracked again, but due to stress against the pavement. Car is very low. Is the temp drop that noticeable after the jet-hot treatment?
Jorge

By Zamani on Unrecorded Date:

SZ headers installed! Quite a big improvement over the stock cast iron manifold. Wrapping it up proved to be a bear (small fibre glass pieces from the header wrapper getting into our pores, ouch! Wear gloves!!!). BUt now you can touch (but not hold!) the headers after a fast drive. Engine bay temperature is lower than with cast iron manifold. Performance from 3500-5000 rpm improved for sure. Nothing like good factory go fast parts.

By Martin on Unrecorded Date:

Any Pictures? Bet it sounds good too!

By Gerry Lehmann on Unrecorded Date:

Zamani, have you documented any before and after performance numbers on the headers with a G-tech, or stop watch. I'm sure inquiring minds would like to know :)

Jorge, the latest jet-hot ad (full page in Autoweek) claims a 300 degree reduction in surface temp when headers are coated inside and out. That sounds a bit high to me but the difference is certainly noticable between my 2 GTV6S. In other circles, the process of extrude hone/ceramic coating has been documented repeatedly as adding a few ponies to cast manifolds. I'm sure the hp addition is not as significant as proper tube headers but honed cast iron is quite popular in American V8 circles for those applications when people would really rather not use headers on a street car for reasons of durability, maintenance, noise, $$$$$ or smog issues.

By tom on Unrecorded Date:

The jet hot is beter for an every day car. If you wrap exaust manifolds tightly with thermal wraps it keeps so much heat in that in time the manifolds of headers shater, warp, or melt. there great for racing where winning is no object. I have seen headers done and while it did the job they cracked within six months. The jet hot is inside and out so there is a ballance. The wrap is best used down stream to keep heat away fom the flooring, brakelines, and fuel lines and tank. The wrap people even stopped recomending use on turbos because they were destroying the turbos and manifolds.

By JOHN-PETER on Unrecorded Date:

Has anyone been mad enough to nitrous oxide a gtv6? Because I have been given a 100bhp kit and
curiousity may get the better of me.Would be interested in any feedback or warnings?

By Azaharuddin on Unrecorded Date:

Tom, how about wrapping the stock cast iron manifolds with fibreglass thermal tape and i use my car for daily driving (i'am not into fast driving well maybe once a while). Will this wrappings ruin the manifolds

By Mattias Eliason (Gesus) on Unrecorded Date:

There is a pic in the alfa bible of a Milano/75 with NOS and the only thing pat braden said is it was cheap, added lots of power and would blow your engine if used poorly...

SO, I would say go for it... but use the fullthrolltle swith as a precausion..

//GESUS

By Zamani on Unrecorded Date:

My brother wrapped his SZ headers. Maybe I'll tell him to have it jet-hot coated instead. Because the headers are very expensive and if they crack or warp....

I also heard that wrapping cast iron manifold is not a good idea because it may result in your manifold cracking in a few months.

Also becareful with the wrapping. Wear gloves, long pants and long sleeve shirts. A mask would also help. This is because the small fiberglass particles can get in your skin/pores/lungs and make you itch and cough for days.

By tom on Unrecorded Date:

Yes they will bust even a mildly driven car. The nascar guys first jet hot and then wrapp and they still bust some every season and they use titanium tubing. It is good stuff but not for anyone but the most serious who can replace parts at will.
Same with the nitrous question. The open deck block that alfa uses will blow head gaskets fast with NO2. the honda racers weld the top of the block up with a plate to keep there liners in place. we cant do that.

By Daniel Coe on Unrecorded Date:

I'm getting ready to go through the engine of my 85 GTV6 in a slow restoration process to a 'better than new' autocross racer. Are there any power robbing components I can remove from the engine? ie. A/C, emissions, etc ???

By beninca on Unrecorded Date:

IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
You must always upgrade to a sequential engine management system with digital spark control
The air flow is immediately increased due to the removal of air flow meter.
The cold air must also be increased.
Obviously the exhaust,extractors,cams, and boring of plenub chamber and inlet runners. www.beninca.com.au/erformance_upgrades.htm

By zeus on Unrecorded Date:

Does anyone know a company that offers camsafts for the 2.5 that have a little more exhaust lift and durations? The "S" cams offer increases on the intake side, but offer nothing more than a slight time change on the exhaust side. I have a 83 gtv6 with a Sperry Stage III, modified ecu, the Sperry plenum and runners, bigger afm, free flowing exhaust and 10 to 1 piston. Also I need adjustible cam pulleys so they can be installed with 2 degree advance.

By joeyjoejoejoejoejoejoe Shebedu on Unrecorded Date:

I have a black BMW with wheels. What colour do you think I should paint my suspension angels to to get the most itallian cabalababalos?

By Hermes Beninca on Unrecorded Date:

I also have a black BMW with the Cabalababalos.

By Dr Pepper on Unrecorded Date:

what the, who the, what the, hamina hamina hamina

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

my neighbor had a BMW....he sold it.

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

I have a gtv6 with a164 3l motor in it and it has the following mods-pace mild race cams,ported and shaved heads ,BMW air flow meter mandrell bent headers into a two and a half inch exhaust with no cats.I was after a rough estimate on how much power i have?.Also what other mods can be done?Do throttle bodies make much difference on these motors?Thanks for any help.

By Anonymous on Unrecorded Date:

I have a gtv6 with a164 3l motor in it and it has the following mods-pace mild race cams,ported and shaved heads ,BMW air flow meter mandrell bent headers into a two and a half inch exhaust with no cats.I was after a rough estimate on how much power i have?.Also what other mods can be done?Do throttle bodies make much difference on these motors?Thanks for any help.

By Steven Noordegraaf (Steven) on Unrecorded Date:

I have not mailed to the group yet, so I will introduce myself shortly.
I am Steven Noordegraaf, Dutch, living in the UK and I own a GTV6 with a 75 3.0L V6.

I would like to know what performance cams I can use and where I can find them. I live in Coventry, UK.

I am also interested in a complete performance exhaust system. I am looking for a system that does not join both banks together. This should give max performance.

Any advise/info about these parts and their prices as well as the addresses where I can find them is welcome.

Thanks,
Steven

By Julian (cfw4-2.rdc1.nsw.excitehome.net.au - 203.164.3.179) on Unrecorded Date:

As for the Cams- www.ebspares.co.uk - Colombo Bariani-
Your Exhaust theory, as far as I know- is wrong- the best way to get power out of a V motor's exhaust system is to have them join in the center at an X junction- say you have two 2" pipes off the collector- they meet at a junction where the two pipes merge and become a 4" single pipe (oval in cross section), before spliiting again into two systems again- the exhaust pressure between the two banks remains equal- so by doing this you are not impeding flow either- this is what all the Serious V8s in Australia do- and it seems to provide very worhtwhile gains for them.

By Steven Noordegraaf (Steven) on Unrecorded Date:

Julian,

Thanks for the cam info.
I have a 3.0L V6 of a 75 (no cats) and I heard that the 164 with cats have other cams to give more power. This could be a cheaper solution maybe.

As for the exhaust. I do not think the optimal exhaust for a V8 is the optimal exhaust for a V6. But I will let you know, when I know more about it myself.

Steven.

By Zamani (63-93-98-8.oak.dial.netzero.com - 63.93.98.8) on Unrecorded Date:

You must change the 3.0 cams to at least the 164QV cams. The stock 3.0 cams has even less overlap than a 2.5!

By Anonymous ( - 195.92.205.70) on Unrecorded Date:

164qv cams are not the same as sz cams.
I have often thought the 2.5cams in a 3 litre engine would be better, even though they have slightly less lift and duration they have closer lobe centers

By Zamani (63-93-99-80.oak.dial.netzero.com - 63.93.99.80) on Unrecorded Date:

The factory (USA) manual says that the 2.5 and 3.0 (normale) cams have the same lift but only differ in either the exhaust or intake duration. SZ cams are different from the QV cams, that's true.

If anyone wants, the can check through the postings. I gave the 3.0 and QV cams and Sandro Tirabassi gave the specs for the SZ cams. You can compare it all there.

3.0 cams makes the car a little boring to drive, especially if you're used to a 2.5. Actually come to think of it what the heck, just go for those Colombo 11mm cams from EB Spares, it's about 10% more expensive, if that.

By Paul Grant (santafe2.ins-exchange.com - 204.134.91.162) on Unrecorded Date:

Zamani-so the sz cams have a little higher lift duration than the s-cams.I'm guessing that you can put the sz cams on a 2.5 as you can with s.Since they are Alfa I'd be willing to gamble on them.Is Vince the only source on these?Paul

By Zamani (synvpn.synplicity.com - 209.157.48.1) on Unrecorded Date:

Have you checked the postings? I'm not sure which lift is higher. But the S-cams are mild. Get them from EB spares. I still feel the 2.5's static comp. ratio is a little low for a any serious improvement. Maybe you should have the heads milled a little 8-). Maybe you should think about a 3.0.

By Paul Grant (spider-mtc-ta051.proxy.aol.com - 64.12.105.41) on Unrecorded Date:

Zamani-I would love a 3.0 but one has to do what one can afford.Probably porting the heads and oversize valves in conjunction with higher lift cams would do the trick somewhat.I'll check the postings.I still like an engine that likes to rev.The 2.5 has that.I've heard the 3.0 doesn't.Besides I'm not going to be chasing Z28's.I just want my engine to exceed the performance of my Dads modified 911 SC.Paul

By zamani (63-93-99-73.oak.dial.netzero.com - 63.93.99.73) on Unrecorded Date:

Paul,

I have the both the SZ and IAP headers. I've decided to go with the SZ headers just because. I wanna avoid having to ship it back to IAP and deal with them crediting my account etc (they have a 60 day money back guarantee). I just got it yesterday. So you wanna have it for $525? I'll cover shipping. Let me know. Actually this thing should be good for a modified 2.5 or a mildly modified 3.0. The shankle primary pipes are too small for the 3.0. Oh yeah, these IAP headers come with very nice 2" downpipes and flexpipes! Don't worry there's a reducer pipe at the ends of the downpipes to fit into your stock muffler. Looks like almost plug and play. If you don't want them, I have a set of 3.0 exhaust manifold which would suit a 2.5 with S-cams. The 3.0 manifolds have bigger primary pipes. $175/pair open for negotiation.

By Zamani (66-42-2-126.oak.dial.netzero.com - 66.42.2.126) on Unrecorded Date:

Oh yes, I've found a way to cheaply "port and polish" the intake runners for V6 cars. Not applicable for those using 164 intake runners (too thin). Use a driller, small wire wheel/brush, flexible extension and an extra drill head.

I've done 3 runners already. It's cleaned and polished. Will take off more material this weekend. I think it will increase the diameter by about 5-7% which means the surface area increase is the square of the new diameter, about 13% increase. Not bad for $25 worth of tools and 4-5 hours of work.

Estimated increase in power, about 746w!!! (1 bhp) 8-), but it's nice to have clean runners. I'm going to install these with the ported plenum, cleaned & balanced injectors, and Greg's oil vapor separator mod. Should keep the intake clean. Might make a big difference in emmissions though with clean, non sticky air.

By Brian Herzfeld ( - 66.7.173.53) on Unrecorded Date:

Zamani,

I had thought of something similiar for the runners (also exhaust), but using a coarse "flex hone" (if they sell one that size, I think so) and flushing with water or WD-40. I figure it might be a bit faster? 8-)

Brian Herzfeld, Colo.

By Paul Grant (santafe2.ins-exchange.com - 204.134.91.162) on Unrecorded Date:

Zamani-I'm going to hold on the headers and manifolds right now.After talking with Greg Gordon I'm not convinced that I'm going to get any significant power increase over the stock.It seems to me my next move is really more aggresive cams,porting the heads,oversize valves and then fuel injection.I've also heard conflicting opinions on the benefits of Extrude Hone.I would be curious as to the benefits you get personally on your 75 as to the difference in power gains.Also whats the current status of your fuel injection project with Medici?If I were going to do heads I would probably go SZ as that comes from Alfa.I also got a concurring opinion from a guy at IAP.He thought the headers they sold were well constructed but thought they were a waste of money.Have you done any dyno testing with and without these mods.If its 1 or 2 HP its not worth $525.00.However if you find out somthing different I'm interested to hear it.You and Medici seem to be the true pioneers in the USA on this forum(Julian and Ben being down under)on engine performance mods so when you have some new concrete info I think we will all be exited to hear about it.I want to do mods but I have a confession.I'm old,I'm poor,I'm ignorant and a little chicken.Paul

By Zamani (synvpn.synplicity.com - 209.157.48.1) on Unrecorded Date:

Paul,

I'd recommend not messing with the heads if they are fine. Go with exhaust mods first. Headers will give more power, not sure how much, but S-cams on 2.5 will make it peakier, I've had that setup before. Not as flexible as before. Probably due to the lower static CR of the 2.5 (9:1 only).

As to the EFI, target is August, but subject to change if money is an issue (it usually is..8-) )

By medici (putc3218139.cts.com - 209.68.218.139) on Unrecorded Date:

Paul: cams are going to cost 5 to 7 hundred, headers as you mentioned 600..porting heads with oversized valves etc 1300 for beginers...All these mods done alone will yield 5-8HP independently...I think you should consider doing the beninca package with us and gaining 20hp in one foul swoop, plus we'll all have each other for support, tips tricks etc. Once you have the autotronic in place, you can upgrade the headers, cams, heads as you can afford it, plus maximize the mods HP increases by re-configuring autotronic!
In my humble opinion, just doing one of the mods and expecting a NOTICABLE gain in power is not realistic, I say save your money..Heck even two of the mods, like cams and headers for instance wouldn't do a whole lot. (ive done that) you could borrow my A/F meter plus take zamani's advice and polish your own runners, or maybe me or zamani could help you polish yours..bottom line is you will save alot of money not paying beninca to do your runner work and not buying your own A/F meter..heck I'd even install the thing for you, (once I do mine), you live in arizona right? fun drive anyway from san diego.

By Anonymous (host-216-252-151-34.interpacket.net - 216.252.151.34) on Unrecorded Date:

Hello 2 everyone! I'm wanting to do a better than average naturally aspirated rebuild on my Alfetta GTV Coupe,78 mdl.Just 2 questions. I heard raising the compression ratio is bad, cause it stresses the engine more, is this true..? And secondly, what internal mods can be done for better performance? Does stroking or boring help?
Thanks if there is anyone who can help!

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

Raising the compression does increase the stress on the engine, but the Alfa motors are easily able to handle this, it's not really a factor. The greater problem is higher compression requires higher octane fuel. If you raise it too much pump gas will not provide a high enough octane rating and you will need to retard the ignition timing to prevent pinging. This will of course result in a loss of power. Raise the compression to 10:1 maybee 10.5:1 for pump gas and you will enjoy a good increase in power throughout the rev range. Any more and commonly avaliable fuel may not be good enough.

By Blacksheep's Shepard (66-42-2-89.oak.dial.netzero.com - 66.42.2.89) on Unrecorded Date:

Here's why you need an aftermarket EFI with good spark and fuel resolution.
1-to accomodate and maximize other engine upgrades
2-to get better emmissions
3-to get better fuel economy and drivability

You can only do so much with Jetronic. We're not talking super duper expensive stuff, like MOTEC or some $10K doo-hickey that makes you coffee and sings mary had a little lamb for you.... you get my point.

The costs should be <$2K and after that all your mods should not be a hit and miss affair. Paul, I've done the big valves and S-cams and exhaust mods on my previous 2.5 engine. In fact if you want that engine I can sell it to you for cheap, it's in my garage.

OK I've said this about a gazillion times, but I guess that's what makes this forum alive, by killing a dead horse twice over 8-))).

By Chip Mutza on Unrecorded Date:

Does anyone remember who it is that sells the ported plenum & runners for
the Milano/GTV6? I could've sworn that both Sperry Valve Works and Alfa
Heaven sold a set... but neither of them list the parts on their online
catalogs any more. Has anyone had any experience with these parts? Any
noticeable performance gain?

Thanks in advance!

-Chip Mutza
San Diego, CA
'93 164S
'89 Milano (race project) - anxiously awaiting completion of modified 3L
transplant (Sperry heads, 10:1 pistons, IAP headers, etc)

http://www.fastalfas.com

By J Porter on Unrecorded Date:

The sz cams are fine but the colombo cams are better, we use them in sz s and they give considerably more power througout the range and they do not have to have a chip with them ,the chip does however improve power and throttle response. We are now experimenting with another colombo cam that should give more top end power but will have to run with a chip for top end fueling and we think it will be more peaky

By medici (putc1218048.cts.com - 209.68.218.48) on Unrecorded Date:

Hey Chip we met at qualcomm autocross about a year ago, I was in a red gtv6. Anyway nice website. Sperry still offers the PIR but you have to call him and request it, as for HP gains its probably not that effective unless you upgrade your ignition system *getting rid of your af meter*. Headers from International I can't say as I use the shankles on my 3.0 milano along with S cams, sperry ecu, no cat...I guess headers are pretty effective, today I drove my buddys 100% stock Verde and there is NO comparison to my Verde. BTW what stage sperry heads are you gonna run in you race project? email me I'd like to meet up with you next autocross, I have to renew my solo II but it would be nice to have some alfa support at the track. alfa75@cts.com

By Anonymous (host-216-252-151-34.interpacket.net - 216.252.151.34) on Unrecorded Date:

Is there anyway of increasing the capacity of the stock 2litre engine, say to 2.2-2.5 litres? Or is this just a silly idea?
Cheers.

By Julian (cfw4.rdc1.nsw.excitehome.net.au - 203.164.3.170) on Unrecorded Date:

I have never seen one or heard of one- but a custom crank and a custom set of rods could be made up for someone with the money to invest- maybe a "Stroker 2.2L" isnt out of the question, but I think for most people's means that it pretty much is!

You can go overbore- Wider diameter pistons with associated rings, but this requires new liners- you will find that Autodelta in the UK make parts for this- I believe they do anyhow.

If you wanted to go the extreme- you could have Beninca in Melbourne Australia construct you a set of grouped liners- specifying to them what the bore was to be- and they could probably have a set of pistons made up to suit- in a compression ratio of your choice- that would simply bolt onto the standard crank and rods.
You would find turboing a motor that is in a trim such as this would yield great torque from early on in the rev range.

By Alberto on Unrecorded Date:

Please HELP !

I'm looking for 6 second hand injectors for my GTV6. With tuned 3.0 and single throttle bodies the Haltech work at 100% of duty cycle.

The stock injectors are too small.

I'm looking for injectors with flow rate of 230-240 cc/min, like Bosch
0.280.150.151
0.280.150.152
0.280.150.201
or something else.

Thank you.

By micke on Unrecorded Date:

There are options to increase the displacement of the 2.0 fourbanger.

Easy is bigger pistons. 85 mm fit easily with original liners. 86 mm is also available but probably requires custom liners.

A 90 mm stroke crank is also available.

86x90 would then give a 2091 cc engine but I doubt that the power would rise in proportion to the displacement (even less the cost).

I would be more interested to get a shorter stroke (~84 mm) for the 2.0 to increase max rpm from current 8200.

By Luis (62-36-158-111.dialup.uni2.es - 62.36.158.111) on Unrecorded Date:

Hi Alberto, Where are you from?
And have you tried to increase the fuel pressure?
What type of tuning do you have?
I think most people in this forum can help you, and are interested in your engine modifies too.

Luis

By Julian (gw.jpalmer.com.au - 203.26.11.244) on Unrecorded Date:

I think that the stroked crank, coupled with some neat headwork, and a high pressure turbo system using a low static compression ratio would provide unbelievable torque- the only problem would be getting it to the ground through an alfa transaxle without breaking gears, and diffs, and driveshafts.

By Zamani (synvpn.synplicity.com - 209.157.48.1) on Unrecorded Date:

Alberto,

I think what Luis said is correct. For a "cheap fix". Pressurize your fuel rail to 50+ psi. The standard BOSCH fuel pump can only supply 58 psi. But I have my suspicions, especially for an item that old. It may not give you more than 55 psi.

Our cars have a BSFC value of about 0.47. And it seems that for a 187cc/min injectors (all 12V V6s) our cars will top out at about 200bhp at about 47psi.

Let us know if that will work for you

By Zamani (synvpn.synplicity.com - 209.157.48.1) on Unrecorded Date:

Alberto,

One more thing, it would really be great if you can let us know if the Halteck E6K you're running is giving you better results than the Jetronic. As you know Medici and I are planning for an Autronic SMC upgrade. Before plonking down $2K, we'd like to have some feedback from a GTV6 user like yourself. How is the system? Does it idle well? How's the resolution etc etc etc...

Thanks!

By Anonymous (host-216-252-151-34.interpacket.net - 216.252.151.34) on Unrecorded Date:

Thanks Julian, sounds like abit of work! I think I will leave it as is. Just trying to get a decent n/a rebuild.

By Julian on Unrecorded Date:

Then just up the compression with some 10.4:1 Borgo pistons (if you are in the US from IAP- If you are elsewhere other brands may be available), deck the head slightly to bring comp up a bit further, fit some nice valves springs, port the head, and get some 10548 cams. Standard dellorto's should handle it fine.
When porting the exhaust side of the head, match the diameter to that of your chosen exhaust manifold- no bigger than 2" for top end performance- even then that is probably a bit big- you may want to speak to Ben Bishop about this stuff- he's been through a bit and has more actual knowledge than I do (he's a qualified engineer).

By Brian Herzfeld, Colo. ( - 66.7.173.186) on Unrecorded Date:

Julian,

On exhaust manifolds (Norm. aspirated eng.), I have read in an engine performance book, that it is best to have the openings in the manifolds sized somewhat larger than the exhaust ports as this will create a type of "inversion dam" effect to help reduce reverse pressure pulses back into the ports.
Opinions on this???

-Brian-

By Steven Noordegraaf (Steven) on Unrecorded Date:

Hello all!

Thanks for all the cam info!
Is there anybody how has a good set of 3.0L V6 164QV (catalyst) cams? And how can you tell these cams are infact 164QV (catalyst) cams?
I am interested in buying them.

IF somebody is selling 3.0L V6 colombo or SZ cams I am also interested in those.

Greetings
Steven.

By Julian on Unrecorded Date:

Hi Brian-

Yeah- Ive also heard this before- the idea as I heard was to allow the air leaving the exhaust ports to expand and swirl into the exhaust manifold area that is larger in diameter than the head ports, and create a spiralling effect, allowing it to maintain its velocity- I'll have to ask a friend that is in the midst of completing his BMW 2002 project (its a quad throttle injected, 11:1, 8200rpm, 200hp proposition and only SOHC!)- because I have never actually asked someone who has gone all out on a naturally aspirated four cylinder, what they think of this idea- it simply being commonplace in Australia for a fairly heavily modified NAsp car to have match ported head/manifold joins through the flange. The speed of the exhaust gas is calculated, and a (extractors) manifold system with tuned lengths before the collector/s placed on the end of it all, with a straight through exhaust system.
The idea has its merits though- a hot gas wanting to expand into any area possible, while giving it direction, should obviously help removing exhaust gases- blows my idea of a small diameter exhaust out of the water though!
Ben- where are you?
Oh- I also think Hondas (yuk) may be a good example- I will try to get a look at a Type R integra's manfolding- they have 200hp factory at about 8500rpm- 1.8 displacement.

By Julian (cfw4-2.rdc1.nsw.excitehome.net.au - 203.164.3.179) on Unrecorded Date:

Silly me!

The 2.5 which I am picking up very soon (this Sunday!!!! YEAAHHHHHH!!! Car goes into bodyshop next week!!), uses a match ported system- the diameter is 2 1/4" off each cylinder, before joining into a 2 1/2" system. It was built by the man who used to build the GTV6 racecars for Grp.A Touring Cars in Australia, and uses the actual cams out of one of these cars- so that also says something....

By Paul Grant (santafe2.ins-exchange.com - 204.134.91.162) on Unrecorded Date:

Medici-I have been off the forum for about 3 days.I would love to do the Autotronic but I'm not sure even if I went in with you and Zamani that I could afford it right now.What kind of price would we be talking about?By the way I live in Santa Fe,New Mexico not Arizona.So its an easy 2 day drive or a 12 hour 1 day drive to San Diego.But again polishing plenums and manifolds.Do I really gain that much in power?The other thing is if I can get 15 to 20 hp with Sperry ECU,or Kirhstein what is my advantage with Autotronic?Just asking honest questions here.You and Zamani have 3.0 in your cars please other engine mods.All I have is a cat bypass and a K & N Filter at the moment.Paul

By medici ( - 204.212.149.61) on Unrecorded Date:

the thing is the sperry or kirstein modified L-jet is still L-jet, anyway you slice it its still bologna...YOU WILL NOT GET 10-20HP FROM MOD LJET. you will get 3hp and even thats doubtful.
As far as price goes, I think you could spend about 1,000 (not sure on the price but its close) You see Paul I was suggesting this because you were going to waste your money on headers or cams or sperry's stuff etc. My point was spend a tad more and take it to the next level so when you CAN afford the cams, headers et al, you could maximize they HP they will add. Plus have me and Zamani to guide you along..Driving to new mexico would be fun! take advantage of my road trip and go to vegas, my verde needs to get out and run anyay..If you can't do it in august just let me or zamani know when you can do and we'll still help you. No Hurries or Worries.

By Paul Grant (santafe2.ins-exchange.com - 204.134.91.162) on Unrecorded Date:

Much Appreciated Medici.Except if I were going to to do the Autotronic I would simply drive out to Sandiego and either have you guide me thru it or have you guys do it.Vegas is great.My only problem is I'd end up losing the $1100 bucks to fund the autotronic to a crap game.I will seriously consider it when I have the cash.Paul

By medici ( - 204.212.149.61) on Unrecorded Date:

good deal paul. My outlook is (and I've said it before) the alfa's we have were purchased for a few bucks (thousands less than a new car or even a used porsche/bmw/ etc. So why not update the engine and electronics, its what the factory would've done anyway. and you didn't spend 15-20k on a japanese eco-box! the alfa's we have deserve the goodies.

By Julian on Unrecorded Date:

OK Brian-
I had a "good Ol Chat" with my mate about exhaust manifolds etc. He is only my age- but he knows what works and what doesnt- his old man is a legend with Turbo stuff.
Anyway- its as such-
youre creating a venturi effect by allowing the exhaust gas to expand into an area bigger than what it had previously been occupying- this is allows it to speed up. But if your diameter is too large, then you will lose out down low, because you are not loading up the engine with any backpressure, its not pushing against anything, which is great for High Rpm flow, but horrible and doughy for down low.
The debate exists in many Australian Motorsport circles as to whether or not Mandrel Bends really are better than press bends- the two schools of thought both using good arguments:
Press bends create a resistance, into which the gas in question must cram, but as the bend straightens, the exhaust is suddenly allowed to escape via the easiest means, and its velocity rises through to the exit point- it also creates points of backpressure meaning the engine is creating torque while trying to push the gas through.
Mandrel Bend people say that because a mandrel bend is the same diameter the entire way through, you are allowing the gas an unrestricted path to its exit point, with least backpressure.
SOOOO With a nutrally aspirated motor, you want to cram as much air in there as possible- simple. If you have ported your head, and are after an exhaust system- a tuned length 4-2-1 header system about 1/8- 1/4" larger in diameter than your head's exhaust ports should work well-
Coupled with your choice of exhaust system- if youre driving everyday and you like low down power, then a 2"- 2 1/2" system should be plenty- if not maybe a little big. A mandrel bent system after the collector is probably best- they arent cheap, but they perform up top- which, with a naturaly aspirated four cylinder, is were you make your gains.
On a note- Zamani?????
Remember we were querying whether or not backpressure is god for an exhaust system?
My Friends that I spoke to here believe it is necessary due to it providing something for the motor to work against- producing torque- Which is what I always thought to be the case- I dont actually know fore sure- but that's what they, and my own mechanic think. If you have a turbo race car revving to 8500rpm running 2 Bar boost- then all's well running a three inch exhaust- but you would generally have a screamer pipe- meaning you dump straight from the wastegate to the atmosphere- no backpressure- max boost.
Julian Edgar (www.autospeed.com) is, like most of us- a theorist- going by heresay generally- and his points are always valid- though most in the serious performance scene in Australia believe that testing, not theorising, is where you learn whether things work or not- and he is generally not taken seriously. I enjoy his articles though!

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

Julian: I lost you at that part about the engine creating torque by trying to push the exaust through. It is true that in some cases more restrictive exaust can cause a engine to produce more power, but that is because of scavenging not the engine pushing against something. Anything the engine pushes against takes away power. For example a stock Alfa 2.5 v6 probably puts out somewhere near 350-400 HORSEPOWER, however because of all the resistance in the motor from backpressure, bearing drag, rotating mass etc. we only get 154 at the flywheel. Also, a venturi effect is created by speeding up a gas or fluid by forcing it through a smaller area, not a larger one, I think that is what you meant.

By Alberto on Unrecorded Date:

Hi Zamani, I have a very high fuel pressure (4 bar instead of 2.8 stock) but isn't enough. My Haltech E6S work perfectly and idle at 900 rpm. The car has a brutal torque but I've tuned the engine on the road not on the dyno so the fuel consumption is very high. I'll send the pictures of all my modification soon.

By Zamani (66-42-1-48.oak.dial.netzero.com - 66.42.1.48) on Unrecorded Date:

Alberto,

So you definitely recommend an aftermarket EFI? Works much better than the Jetronic right? Hope to see your pictures soon.

Thanks.

By ben bishop on Unrecorded Date:

Greg is right, many people confuse 'back pressure' for momentum driven scavenging (why 4-2-1 systems provide better low end torque). I'm sure i covered this in a post somewhere a while ago, about why small primarys work at low to medium and big ones at the topend. (its a keeping the gas velocity up thing.)
Anyone want me to go into detail theory again? sounds like you missed it first time around Jules?
so called 'venturi' theorists might want to look at abit of fluid mechanics theory before they go gettin confused and confusing other people.

BTW, the anti reversion 'steps' (don't go bigger than 3mm difference between the pipe and the port, (pipe should be bigger than port))suggested by many people do acutally work, I know some people who have screwed around with this on an escort 2l. Improves the bottom end significantly without a (noticeable)loss to the topend.
The way it works is it provides what is called a 'Vena Contracta' in fluid mechanics terms. Basically, the step (and it does need to be a step, ramps don't cut it) causes an effective diameter about 60-70% of the actual diameter and helps prevent flow back into the cylinder from the exhaust (big problem with big overlap cam settings)

The only possible 'advantage' i can see of press bends over mandrel bends is you can build a tuned length system in a very tight space, and it is easier and quicker (cheaper) than a mandrel bent system. Mind you, crap welds on a mandrel system would make for a system that performed worse than a press bent system (you dont want lumps inside the pipes).

Ben Bishop
'77 GTV 'La Strega Nera'

Now that 4-stroke tuning priciples aren't enough of a challenge anymore, I'm beginning to dabble in the black art of 2-strokes with their wonderous expansion chamber exhaust systems.

By Julian (gw.jpalmer.com.au - 203.26.11.244) on Unrecorded Date:

Yet again- youve cleared it all up beautifully for me!

By JMody (dfw-gate4.raytheon.com - 199.46.199.233) on Unrecorded Date:

Ben, the only STRONG advocates of press-bends are some custom-motorcycle builders in Southern California who say that their "cobra-hood" bends prevent the swirl that you get in a constant-section radiused-bend mandrel-bent exhaust. These are the guys who run 2-liter (140 cubic-inch) V-twin supercharged choppers, so I am not inclined to disgree with them face-to-face. Their handiwork is gorgeous, because the header pipe does look like a cobra's spread hood, but I'd have to say that if it really did work, we'd see other people copying it, wouldn't we?

By ben bishop on Unrecorded Date:

I think i can just say "Harleys" and everyone here will understand??
Everytime i see one of those things i keep thinking of the village people...
Y-M-C-A

Ben Bishop
'77 GTV 'La Strega Nera'
Much preferring the unsupercharged V-twins of about half that capacity form Bologna (i think thats where they are made.

By Alberto ( - 62.211.11.81) on Unrecorded Date:

I think that you think at DUCATI !! I agree with you. The Alfa Romeo of motorcycling !

By Peter K. (vp186-149.worldonline.nl - 195.241.186.149) on Unrecorded Date:

www.villagepeople-official.com
www.ymcanyc.org

By Peter K. (vp186-149.worldonline.nl - 195.241.186.149) on Unrecorded Date:

And don't forget:www.ducati.com

By juansiri on Unrecorded Date:

The S cama and the SZ cams are the same.
The only difference are the heads.The heads of the
SZ are factory machined.

By Razielo on Unrecorded Date:

I probably shouldn't be writing this here but how much is an alfa SZ. Are there still some around in the states. Horsepower?

By dp ( - 204.247.197.117) on Unrecorded Date:

Are there ANY in the United States?

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

I just drag raced my 85 GTV6 against my dad's 83 GTV6 and the results were quite suprising. My 85 has outdraged about 3 other GTV6s over the years and for a long time I thought it was due to its Pandora's box ecu, super sucker AFM and free flow exhaust system. As some of you may know I later learned (when I bought my Milano) that those products only added 2 or 3 horsepower and my car's supremacy was largly due to the fine tuning I had done.
Well dad just rebuilt a 83'GTV6 and kept it largely stock with only a couple of exceptions. Basically it is set up just like mine, same type of plugs, valves set to min. clearence, extra air/oil separator and improved aux air device. However he installed Total Seal's zero gap rings and used full radius cut valve seats, with Sperry's guides and seals (basically just like Sperry stage one heads). He also had the pistons and rods ballanced, but not the crank. All injection and ignition components are dead stock on his car. Of course his car has the 3.42 gears vs. my 85 car's 4.10s
We drag raced today and the 83 car easily beats my 85, which up until now has never lost a drag race to another Alfa. The cars are about even up to 20 mph, then the 83 car leaves mine in the dust. By 70 mph the 83 car was easily 4 car lenghts ahead, considering its gearing disadvantage it must have 25 more horses.
The lesson here is Total Seal rings and full radius cut valve seats really work. Total seal claims you will gain at least 5% more power with thier product and I think it must be more than that. The cost of these mods over a stock overhaul is minimal, maybee an extra $150.

By euroXpress (host-216-226-247-86.interpacket.net - 216.226.247.86) on Unrecorded Date:

Wow! But just remember your Dads has just been rebuilt. How many KMS Has your GTV6 done?? may be tired.?

By Goner (wcs3.norfolk.nipr.mil - 198.26.132.99) on Unrecorded Date:

Seein' as it's your fathers car why don't y'all swap vehicle's and try it again. I aint sayin' yer a "bad" driver but maybe yer pop is better! When "drag" racin', technique is a big part of the equation..........

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

Euro, my GTV6 has only about 65k miles on it and still has full compression so it's in great shape.
Goner, regarding technique. It was not a factor, we started at about 10mph to eliminate the tire slippage variables and my dad does not drive that much better then I do. His Alfa had pulled well ahead before it was time to shift.

By Paul Grant ( - 208.254.91.250) on Unrecorded Date:

Greg-Does your car have S-Cams.If it does then the S-Cams would be a complete waste of money in my book.So where do you get Total Seal's zero gap rings?Paul

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

Hi Paul: No my car does not have "S" cams, it has stock cams. Total Seal rings for the Alfa are avaliable at a few places, the lowest price is from Summit racing, they advertize in all the "Hot Rod" type of magazines. This is the second engine my dad has built with those rings and both times the improvement has been dramatic.

By Zamani ( - 210.186.236.100) on Unrecorded Date:

Onely 1 ring right?Is it ring #2? I was thinking
of putting in 10:1 S pistons, 1 total seal ring
and the 164 intake runners. The standard V6
runners are 1/8" smaller. But I will also put in
the Phenolic spacer that the standard V6
runners have for heat insulation. The 164
system does not have the phenolic spacer.

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

Zamani, the total seal rings come in a complete set however their "zero gap technology" can only be used on one of the two compression rings. If it was used on both compression rings there would be a danger of pressure build up between the rings (according to the Total Seal tech people who I talked to) You can order the set with the zero gap rings on either the top OR the lower compression ring. With it on the top ring you will get a little more performance. My dad ordered the set with the zero gap ring on the lower compression ring, to minimize the octane requirments. He wanted to be able to run cheap fuel. I also have a theory that having it on the lower compression ring will reduce oil consumption a little more then it would on the top ring.

By Brian H. ( - 66.7.173.19) on Unrecorded Date:

Greg, do you by any chance have the part number for the GTV-6 ring set? -Please?

By Greg Gordon on Unrecorded Date:

www.totalseal.com or www.summitracing.com. The rings are actually quite a bit cheaper at Summit but the totalseal website has some good info. I don't know the part number and you don't need to. This is a part Summit stocks, just get thier number from thier website and call them and tell them what you want. There are basically no variables here since we don't rebore our engies, just tell them if you have a 2.5 or 3.0 and if you want the top or second ring gapless. There are other variables for turbo or nitrous engines but I know nothing about that, if you are curious call Total Seal and they will tell you all about it.

By Brian H. ( - 66.7.173.19) on Unrecorded Date:

Thanks !

By Jorge Tamacas on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 10:23 am:

HI everybody, I have a 1983 gtv6. My car has a K&N air filter, the airbox was deleted, but I had to do an adaptor to make it fit, because it has a round neck. I mean is not a rectangular airfilter. The cat and the silencer was deleted too. I have a 2.5" exhaust system with a detonator and two 3" tail pipes.
Its a screaming beast at high rpm. I love that sound.

Let's keep in touch. Send a e-mail to: jorge6972@hotmail.com
Jorge Tamacas from El Salvador, Central America.

By lhouser on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 07:28 pm:

Has anyone tried msds air intake? If so what did you think?

By Zamani on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 11:30 pm:

I prefer stock size K&N panel filter, and bored out airbox intake hole (for the 2.5 engine)

By romroc@hotmail.com on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:46 pm:

I'm modifying my GTV-6. Just had the heads with S cams done and may go to 10:1 pistons. Headers are also contemplated. How well will all this work? the rev limit will be raised a bit. Will she burn rubber? Who out there has done this exact series of mods? Will it all pass?

By barry on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 11:56 am:

DETONATOR? Jorge,ur car must be a blast!
Welcome,buddy!

By Julian on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

Speaking of burning rubber- Ive sent this to a few of you, but for your enjoyment, I thought I would post this video of me "Playing Silly Buggers"

http://www.italianautoclub.com/m-julian3L.htm

Oh BTW its a 2.5- not a 3.0- Im gonna get a series of pics together (scanning now) showing how it has all been done, bit by bit- and will submit a complete list of crap Ive done to Michael Harris soon... also wanna do another video soon-ish- bigger than this one.

By Zamani on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 09:59 am:

Somebody get my QV pistons. I wanna get my JEs.

By barry on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 10:22 am:

Z,????????? What do u mean?

By Zamani on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 12:38 pm:

I was just asking people to buy my 10.1:1 QV pistons so I can get the cash to get my 10.5:1 JE pistons.

By PaulG on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 09:51 pm:

Julian-nice shot of burning rubber.I'm assuming you were on your way to buy a new set of tires right!

By drewseph on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:54 am:

noice shkid brudda......

heres my burnout pic, along with me losing to a 90 in a drag...

http://www.italianautoclub.com/m-drew.htm

By Julian on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 02:59 pm:

Actually Paul they're still on the back haha- its soooo fun in the wet - I only have to flex my ankle, and steer into it, and I can do a lap of a whole city block on a deserted weekend morning, on opposite lock with revs varying between 2500 and 7!

Not to say I do it alot, but I have done so!

Hey Drew nice smoke up!

Bet your (single spinner?) diff wasnt too happy with it, though!

By PaulG on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 12:09 pm:

Julian-I'm glad you don't do it a lot.I don't think your insurance agent would appreciate it too much.

By drewseph on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 11:25 pm:

yeah, it is a single spinner....but, it left to dark black lines there....strange.....

By mirda on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 04:22 pm:

J haw Alfa Romeo 33 1.7 ccm 1.7 16v engine vher cen t buy good book and performans parts for modifyng boxer engine.

By mirda on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 04:23 pm:

J haw Alfa Romeo 33 1.7 ccm 1.7 16v engine vher cen t buy good book and performans parts for modifyng boxer engine.

By Julian on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 09:49 pm:

Modification applications are pretty much similar to all engines regardless of type- its in the fine print that things are different.

For naturally aspirated, raise compression, port heads, fit cams, and short gear ratios. Re-Map ECU

For forced induction, lower compression, fit a turbo+manifold/blower, intercooler, and re map ECU.

Sounds simple.

None of it is!

By joey on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 10:48 pm:

turbo is a bitch on the flat 4 as u can well imagine, s/c may well be a better option....

mirda, go to:

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/?go_to=disc

there is a guy there hoping to pull 180bhp with 90mm pistons (for 1830cc capacity), cams, headwork and chip.

not sure how successful extracting power from the Efi 16v 1.7 is.. it seems to me at least that stock rating of just under 140bhp without cat is pretty damn good (and efficient) with just 1.7litres capacity. the 180bhp build is likely to be interesting in traffic duty, to say the least..